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DS1 Legendary Mod for DS2 Beta Thread

This thread is devoted to comments, bug reports and fixes and discussion about the Beta version of the DS1 Map Pack for Dungeon Siege 2 and Dungeon Siege 2: Broken World.

This mod allows players the opportunity to play Kingdom of Ehb, Utraean Peninsula, Legends of Aranna and Yesterhaven from the original Dungeon Siege in Dungeon Siege 2 and it's expansion, with all the benefits that provides.

The mod is based on Killergremal's original work on the Utraean Peninsula, Kingdom of Ehb and Yesterhaven, found at this thread; http://siegetheday.org/?q=node/1330 Current version is Beta 30 and is fully feature complete, stable and fun to play. You will need a 550 Mb download as well as 1Gb of free HD space to install the mod.

DS1 Legendary Mod Installer version
http://www.moddb.com/downloads/dungeon-siege-2-legendary-mod-beta-30 (555 Mb)
Alternative download link
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav30/DS1_Legendary_Mod_Betav30_Installer.zip

Current Readme for the Mod
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Legendary_Mod_for_Dungeon_Siege_2_Beta31.txt

Installer Notes: You need at least the original Dungeon Siege for the installer to work. In this case it'll install Kingdom of Ehb, Utraean Peninsula and Yesterhaven maps as well as converting the required resources required to play these maps in DS2. If you have Legends of Aranna installed the Mod installer will also install Legends of Aranna together with converting the required resources from LOA. As a bonus Return to Arhok and the third party map Diabloish will be available to play as well.

Included in the installer zip is pre-install fixes for owners of the Steam version of Dungeon Siege 1 and 2. These fixes will need to be applied before installation of the DS1 Legendary Mod or installation will fail.

Alternatively all the mod's components can be downloaded as separate modules.
If you choose to do this you'll need to convert some of the original Dungeon Siege resources to DS2 format otherwise the mod won't work. This won't be necessary if you have already converted the original files for any of the beta versions of the mod. Please note that the mod must be installed in the Dungeon Siege 2 resources folder even if you own Broken World. Unexpected glitches will occur if you don't.

*Here's the links of all required files for the current version 30 Beta;
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Map_Legends_of_Aranna_Beta31.ds2res (37 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Map_World_Beta31m.ds2res (46.1 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Map_Utraean_Peninsula_Beta31.ds2res (72.8 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav30a/DS1_Map_Yesterhaven_Beta30a.ds2res (20.9 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav30/DS1_Mod_Content_Beta30.ds2res (226 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav30a/DS1_Mod_Exp_Content_Beta30b.ds2res (57.9 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Mod_Logic_Beta31m.ds2res (19.0 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav30/DS1_Mod_Terrain_Beta30.ds2res (123 Mb)
DS1 Content Pack Alpha 10w: http://ds2.bplaced.net/getfile.php?redict=174&type=.ds2res (17.9 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav30/Mod-DS1Map-ArhokXP-Beta5.ds2res (30.2 Mb)
Diabloish Map for DS2 Beta 2c: http://ds2.bplaced.net/getfile.php?redict=190&type=.ds2res (15.5 Mb)
Level Adjustment Mod, Beta 5l: http://ds2.bplaced.net/getfile.php?redict=108&type=.ds2res (0.8 Mb)

Work in Progress Beta files for Play-Testers and anyone interested in trying new features not completely tested yet
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Mod_Logic_Beta31n.ds2res (19.0 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Map_World_Beta31n.ds2res (46.1 Mb)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Map_Utraean_Peninsula_Beta31n.ds2res (72.8 Mb)

Fix for Bamboo Texture Display Problem caused by DS1_Mod_Exp_Content_Beta30.ds2res. Not required if DS1_Mod_Exp_Content_Beta30b.ds2res is installed but saves a large re-download just for 1 texture fix in DS2
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav30a/DS1_Patch_Bamboo.ds2res

Current Readme for KillerGremal Mods
DS1 Content Pack Readme: http://ds2.bplaced.net/getfile.php?redict=173&type=.txt
Level Adjustment Mod Readme: http://ds2.bplaced.net/getfile.php?redict=107&type=.txt
Diabloish for DS2 Readme: http://ds2.bplaced.net/getfile.php?redict=189&type=.txt

Optional Party Voice Pack for the Legendary Mod - requires the mod below as well;
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/VoiceSets_Beta3/DS1_Legendary_Mod_VoiceSet_Beta_3.ds2res (62 Mb)
Readme: http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/VoiceSets_Beta3/DS1_Legendary_Mod_VoiceSet_Beta_3.txt
Optional Voice Pack for Heroes and DS2/Broken World party members;
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav28/DS2_Mod_VoiceSet_Beta_4.ds2res (41 Mb)
Readme: http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/VoiceSets_Beta3/DS2_Mod_VoiceSet_Beta_3.txt

Forum Threads for KillerGremal's Mods
DS1 Content Pack & Diabloish http://siegetheday.org/?q=node/1330
Return to Arhok http://siegetheday.org/?q=node/1289

To play these maps you also have to convert already installed DS1 files for DS2, namely Objects.dsres, Sound.dsres and Voices.dsres. It's not that difficult, but it's an essential step because the mods above will refer on these resources. Instructions here; http://siegetheday.org/?q=node/1525#comment-13640
Please note that it is important that the Objects ds2res be named Objects_DS1.ds2res or something similar to avoid a bug with button levers

Additionally to play Legends of Aranna you need to convert expansion.dsmap and ExpVoices.dsres using the exact same method (It's no longer required to tank or untank resource files).

It's recommended to use the auxiallary tool to convert the resources rather than a Hex Editor as that seems to cause issues. The auxiallary tool is also easier to use.

Some useful minimods that may be of interest playing these maps.
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/DS1_Mod_BW_Playable_Utraeans.ds2res
Unlocks Playable Utraean Race in Broken World (not compatible with vanilla DS2. Place into Broken World's resource folder)
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/DS1_Mod_Cat_Mansion_Characters_Beta_3d.ds2res
Converts female recruitable characters into Cat Mansion Models (not compatible with vanilla DS2. Place into Broken World's resource folder. Also requires the Cat Mansion Mod.

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KillerGremal's picture
Calming Steam

@bare_elf: You're probably right, although the invitation to download a 'foreign' exe may not look that confidential to some people, but actually it seems to be a work-around for several matters at the same time.
However I think I will switch over to the RTC from one mod release to the next. It's better to have resouces tanks that basically work with all official exe files, so people can try out a mod/map first before looking for another exe possibly.

 
@Iryan: Thanks for your confirmation that the Content Pack 10y is working as intendend. Smiling
By the way there are still the dir.lqd* files inside the SE2 produced, also the mod pretends to be a 'patch' (hex-edited, probably work-safer concerning the priority issues we have seen already), so STEAM's exe must bother about something else added by the SE2.
In this context, assumed STEAM's release/exe ignores mods completetly, is the CRC resource check for savegames still there? Respectively, if someone is going to use the STEAM exe, and a RTC-tanked mod will be updated, will his existing savegames still be listed in the game menu?

bare_elf's picture
Steam is just hot water!

I find it offensive that Steam changed the executive for the game such that it does not support Maps and Mods made with the Siege Editor. I do not think we should spend a great deal of time re-tanking files using Tank Creator 2 when just replacing the DS2 Steam Executive with any of the DS2 No Cd Executives that can be found on the Internet provides the same cure and has the added benefits of allowing you to use Ely's DS2 AllSaves and later installing the Broken World Add On.

Iryan did you try the following things after "fixing the steam problem"?
Installing Ely's DS2 All Saves in the steam folder and starting the game that way -- it should give you the message "wrong version installed" since All Saves is looking for version 2.2 DS2 and the steam version of DS2 is 2.3
This would also prevent Steam users adding Broken World as you will find that in attempting to do so gives error messages telling you that you already have Broken World installed or would you like to repair the version of Broken World already on your computer. What happens if you answer yes is that Broken World finds the DS2 Steam Version on your hard drive (if you have the registry fix installed)and removes the steam version of DS2 (I assume it thinks the DS2 version 2.3 exe and the associated maps and resources are bad copies of Broken World) Then attempts to install Broken World but it gets stuck and tells you that woops you first need to install DS2 before installing Broken World.

Yes I did purchase the Steam Version of DS2 so that I could test my theory.
So Still the simplest solution is to use this exe -- http://techiem2.net/~bare_elf/execs/DungeonSiege2.exe

This gives the benefits of not having to convert things made with siege editor, allows the upgrade to Broken World and Allows you to use DS2 Allsaves.

Elf


__________________________

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There is no point it is all a dream someday I will wake and really screem wishing I was back in this strange little dream.

New Content Pack now Steam Compatible

KillerGremal wrote:
I'm not really happy about this, but thanks for your examinations.

So here is the new DS1 Content Pack, Alpha 10y (18.4mb, ReadMe), (re)tanked with the RTC now.

I hope this will work, and also that I find time and mood to retank some of my other mods.


The new content pack Alpha10y, works as intended with the Steam version of DS2. So good work there.

I understand your mood and its a pity so much time and effort has been wasted chasing ghosts when the problem was an un-announced alteration to the game exe by Square-Enix developers. Not a good way to engender support for your brand name amongst the people you are trying to sell to.

But given the recent controversies surrounding another well known Japanese company that also starts with S, its apparent the utter contempt some of these big companies hold out for their workers, agents, users, etc. So its probably not surprising.

Naidi and the other guy

sigofmugmort wrote:
31n Notes, up to Gliterdelve. Like the combat additions to the Bear and spells added to some of the monsters as well as the conversation addition. Could not yet recruit Naidi or the other guy.

Will now add the Alpha10y update and continue

Dwarf war cry


Naidi won't offer to join if your primary hero is a ranger.

The other Guy I assume is Rusk? He will only offer to join if your primary hero is a human. Zed will only offer to join if your primary hero isn't a nature mage.

So I assume your primary hero is a non-human ranger? If so then everything is working as expected. If not then something is wrong. No matter what class or race your primary hero has, you should be able to flesh out your party with one of each class in Stonebridge.

Note that the flick controlling this checks the primary class of your hero. The whole purpose of the conditional recruiting of party members is to limit the overall number of party members on the map since 7 more recruitable characters have been added to the map (all the ones you could recruit in the original DS1 version). This is necessary due to the limited number of party members you can store in the Inn and I have also added FreakCandy's disband DS2 mod which allows you to permanently disband party members from the Inn otherwise once you reach this limit you wouldn't be able to recruit more party members.

31n Notes, up to

31n Notes, up to Gliterdelve. Like the combat additions to the Bear and spells added to some of the monsters as well as the conversation addition. Could not yet recruit Naidi or the other guy.

Will now add the Alpha10y update and continue

Dwarf war cry

KillerGremal's picture
Content Pack RTC'ed

iryan wrote:
. . . So I used Siege Editor to first tank both maps and Mod-DS1Content-Alpha10x.ds2res with User priority as selected in the side options menu for tank settings. I tested them in retail Broken World to confirm that the tanks were compiled correctly and everything is working as intended. Then I copied them to the resources folder of the steam version of DS2. Failure as the maps weren't showing and the start of the Utraean Peninsula indicated that Mod-DS1Content-Alpha10x.ds2res wasn't working either.

So I then tried the exact procedure with Factory settings with the same results.

For comparison I then used Tank Creator to tank both maps and Mod-DS1Content-Alpha10x.ds2res again and this time they worked in steam DS2. Both maps are working correctly both in the menu and in-game.

So it appears that the Steam version of DS2 simply won't work with any mods or maps tanked in Siege Editor, no matter what priority setting you assign them.

. . .

I'm not really happy about this, but thanks for your examinations.

So here is the new DS1 Content Pack, Alpha 10y (18.4mb, ReadMe), (re)tanked with the RTC now.

I hope this will work, and also that I find time and mood to retank some of my other mods.

No Expansion Steam I'm afraid

KillerGremal wrote:
@Iryan: Hm, what about 'Return to Arkok'?

With regard to possible patches or user tunings this and most other map files are SE2-tanked (just) as 'expansion'.

I did a series of tests with both Return to Arhok and Diabloish. Neither would work in Steam DS2 with a Tank Creator Tanked version of the Mod-DS1Content-Alpha10x.ds2res. Not completely unexpected even if they were flagged as expansion as I figured either Factory or User has to work.

So I used Siege Editor to first tank both maps and Mod-DS1Content-Alpha10x.ds2res with User priority as selected in the side options menu for tank settings. I tested them in retail Broken World to confirm that the tanks were compiled correctly and everything is working as intended. Then I copied them to the resources folder of the steam version of DS2. Failure as the maps weren't showing and the start of the Utraean Peninsula indicated that Mod-DS1Content-Alpha10x.ds2res wasn't working either.

So I then tried the exact procedure with Factory settings with the same results.

For comparison I then used Tank Creator to tank both maps and Mod-DS1Content-Alpha10x.ds2res again and this time they worked in steam DS2. Both maps are working correctly both in the menu and in-game.

So it appears that the Steam version of DS2 simply won't work with any mods or maps tanked in Siege Editor, no matter what priority setting you assign them.

One thing I noticed is that the Siege Editor tank is 100-600 kilobytes bigger than the one Tank Creator makes so perhaps SE2 packs some extra information that is incompatible with the steam version of DS2.

KillerGremal's picture
Expansion Steam?

@Iryan: Hm, what about 'Return to Arkok'?

With regard to possible patches or user tunings this and most other map files are SE2-tanked (just) as 'expansion'.

Steaming... I quite agree

KillerGremal wrote:
That's a quite interesting + useful discovery! Smiling
...and actually quite annoying too Sad since most of my mods are created with GPG's Siege Editor, intentionally with 'patch' priority to claim neither the highest nor the lowest priority type.

I guess it's probably the 'user' priority assigned by default with the Tank Creator, at least this seems more probable to me than the different file name (would be really strange if the priority changes because the ~15th letter is different now - unless 'Steam' must be inside the file name to accepted by Steam's exe). However both reasons look quite odd and unreasonably handicapping to me...
 


You're right, the name has nothing to do with it. Using the exact same name gives the same results as long as the priority is User.

I also tested running the game through the desktop shortcut which activates steam and it works as well.

You aren't alone as many modders use Siege Editor to generate the tanks for their mods. I just use Tank Creator for convenience to quickly tank up test versions. Typically I could have a dozen or more test versions created in a day and its annoying waiting for Siege Editor to load. If I used the numerical version numbering system that many developers and modders use in other games, I would probably be in the thousands by now.

KillerGremal wrote:
There is a new Content Pack ready, so I'm going to retank it (still) with the Siege Editor but using the 'user' priority now.
Then we will see on, switching over to the Tank Creator is bascially no problem - nonetheless Steam's (partial) ignorance of Siege Editor created mods is a rather disturbing. If intentionally done, how can this accord to the modding idea of DS !?? Shocked  
I would be quite confident that it will work, at least you know I can quickly test it for you once released.

Remember also that the Steam version of DS2 has nothing to do with GPG as the rights are now held by Square-Enix, who sadly have a history of not being bothered to support modding in their games. In fact they may possibly instruct the developers working for them not to provide modding support in their games as Obsidian, the developer who created Dungeon Siege III for them, did at least provide the same level of modding support in KOTOR 2 as the original game, even if they never released any modding tools for it. In contrast modding support for Dungeon Siege III is almost non existent.

At least this now explains the general observations by Steam Users that mods don't work in DS2, all the ones tried were probably tanked with Siege Editor.

KillerGremal's picture
Steaming...

iryan wrote:
. . . So I retanked Mod-DS1Content-Alpha.ds2res with almost the same name (added Steam just before the Alpha) using Tank Creator . . .
That's a quite interesting + useful discovery! Smiling
...and actually quite annoying too Sad since most of my mods are created with GPG's Siege Editor, intentionally with 'patch' priority to claim neither the highest nor the lowest priority type.

I guess it's probably the 'user' priority assigned by default with the Tank Creator, at least this seems more probable to me than the different file name (would be really strange if the priority changes because the ~15th letter is different now - unless 'Steam' must be inside the file name to accepted by Steam's exe). However both reasons look quite odd and unreasonably handicapping to me...

 

iryan wrote:
. . .
Coincidentally this is why using a suggestion by Bare_ELf in an earlier post to use an alternative DS2 exe also works. That still remains the easiest solution unless KillerGremal decides to tank Mod-DS1Content-Alpha.ds2res with a different priority setting (assuming this can be done in Siege Editor?
. . .
There is a new Content Pack ready, so I'm going to retank it (still) with the Siege Editor but using the 'user' priority now.
Then we will see on, switching over to the Tank Creator is bascially no problem - nonetheless Steam's (partial) ignorance of Siege Editor created mods is a rather disturbing. If intentionally done, how can this accord to the modding idea of DS !?? Shocked
 

STEAM ISSUE SOLVED AT LAST!

RSimpkinuk57 wrote:
iryan wrote:
If a Steam user was proficient in using tank creator, then possibly untanking and retanking Mod-DS1Content-Alpha with USER priority may achieve the same thing. It would be extremely interesting to find out.
Would it be a good idea to re-tank Mod-DS1Content-Alpha under a new name earlier in the alphabet than DS1_Mod_Content_Beta to ensure everything loads in the right order to inherit? Or to un- and re-tank the latter at USER+1?
The Problems Steam Users are having playing this mod is at last solved! I would say KillerGremal owes me a beer except I don't like drinking beer.

You see RSimpkinuk57 was right and my suggestion worked! Just using good old reliable Tank Creator to create a new Mod-DS1Content-Alpha.ds2res was all that was needed. First I tried all the current beta31n files and started the Utraean Peninsula in darkness and the starting class selector wasn't working nor the NIS as its launched from the same command gizmo. Trying to recruit Arisa or Magentus failed just as reported by others. I didn't bother continuing on to look for missing items, etc, as I had a firm suspicion of the cause of all of this.

So I retanked Mod-DS1Content-Alpha.ds2res with almost the same name (added Steam just before the Alpha) using Tank Creator as that's what I use for the rest of the files used in the Mod so I know it works in the Steam version of DS2. Sure enough everything worked as intended. However I haven't tested it past Elddim but I'm confident that the suggestion by RSimpkunik57 that the Steam version of DS2 (or rather the exe) is designed, either deliberately or by accident, not to read Patch priority files which so happens to be what Mod-DS1Content-Alpha is tanked with as its tanked through Siege Editor and not Tank Creator (confirmed in an earlier post by KillerGremal).

Coincidentally this is why using a suggestion by Bare_ELf in an earlier post to use an alternative DS2 exe also works. That still remains the easiest solution unless KillerGremal decides to tank Mod-DS1Content-Alpha.ds2res with a different priority setting (assuming this can be done in Siege Editor?).

Interestingly the Steam DS2 exe has no copy protection whatsoever. You can run it even without going through steam.

At least Square Enix didn't profit from me too much to learn all of this information and I do have digital download copies of the game that don't need a disk or any sort of DRM to play.

Dungeon Siege Series on sale at Steam

The Dungeon Siege series plus thousands of other games are now on sale at Steam. So I've bit the bullet and bought the complete series (I, II, II & Treasures) for $4.99US. DS1 & DS2 can be bought for $1.74US each. This is so I can test the Mod with the Steam versions which seems to be the only way I can make a compatible version of the mod for Steam Users. So that 3 times I've bought DS1 (including LOA), 3 times DS2 (lost the first set of disks for a long time before rediscovering them) and 1 time for DS3.

Going on the reports of beta31n, I suspect there's save game incompatibilities as most of those things haven't manifested in my test game apart from Fortress Kroth and Boryev which I've tidied up since. There was an inadvertent Boryev clone left in the Fortress but the real Boryev should both update the Sikra quest and be available for recruiting unless you're a combat mage.

Yes there's a new hiring icon for conditional recruitable characters and if it disappears with the character not offering to join the party, it means that your hero doesn't have the necessary requirements to recruit the character. If you can recruit the character but choose not to, then the new hiring icon changes to a standard hireable icon.

I haven't also seen monsters with the same level of difficulty, certainly a single drake or rock beast can kill outright weak party members while it would take a single krug or phrak ages to do so. With the levelling with the MLA turned off, I forgot about the mimic as that inherits from KillerGremal's content pack. There will be a few of these unadjusted monsters. Also I said I haven't gone past adjusting the monsters up to the start of the crypts so the Rubu Gargoyle hasn't been adjusted yet. If I've time later I'll look at the individual comments for further detail but I think the priority is to finish KOE off as fast as I can so players can play it start to finish with a new party.

My first look at 31n. Problems with Boryev

Yesterday I took my 31m party from Kroth to the Droog village. Today I repeated that but on the 31n version.

iryan wrote:
With KOE adjusted to a difficulty level of 100%, minibosses can certainly kill outright vulnerable party members.

Yes, so Sikra found out yesterday (the Emerald Drake). So much for the plan that by sending Gyorn in first the beast would concentrate on him.

Trivia first (same in 31m and 31n): going through the side cave into the side dungeon where that Drake is (DC_R1A), nowhere do you get the "found a secret area" music and message.

Before that, the last DC so close to the village (DC_R1 0.272/0.000/-1.207/ 0x97C2A3B5; new since 31c the only time I'd been here before) is a completely different design to the others (a flagpole). Still works though. Porting back does land the party up to its eyeballs in attacking soul stingers.

My earlier queries E51c#056: ambush still not triggering; E31c#057: still get that peculiar message of just "message".

iryan wrote:
I would appreciate feedback on the [map selection] fix. It has been available since June this year but never released due to limited feedback. If it works for all DS2 users, I'll post it in the thread heading and maybe bare_elf might add it to the downloads here at SiegetheDay.
I've been using it for three months on 2.2, it's great. How about including it in the Legendary Pack like Elys AllSaves.
iryan wrote:
As mentioned in the earlier posts, some monsters have been assigned new skills and abilities but this is largely untested.
I've noticed (so tested) Droog mages' new ability.
iryan wrote:
The Kingdom of Ehb has had a bit of work right to the end but currently only tested to the beginning of the Fortress Kroth region....The conditional recruitment of party member extends through Kingdom of Ehb so even though for the first time all 16 recruitable characters are available, they can't all be recruited in a single playthrough. Some are skill dependant, some are race dependant. Only the 5 "free" recruitable characters from DS1 don't have some sort of conditional recruiting on them. The rest have a new icon denoting that they may be available to hire. Just talk to them to see if they will offer to join you.
Rhut and Ulfgrim work when the hero isn't allowed to recruit them (my hero is a human male archer accompanied by Ulora, Gyorn, Merik and, when they reach Ulfgrim, Sikra).

E31n#105 With Rhut conditionally recruitable and back in his original spot as in an earlier version of Kroth, a different dwarf is enchanter - he works - but in the reagents trader's spot is not the recent legionnaire but a Boryev-clone without icon, with trader convo but won't trade. (This was when restarting under 31n a save made under 31m; I haven't tested if it is the same under 31n alone.)

E31n#106 +++UPDATED HERE+++ I could recruit the Boryev outside the Fury's tunnel exit but when I did so he put on a Mechanized Suit which came out all black-and-yellow. (A rare one with "Blue" modifier.) Was this due to trying to wear it over what looks to me like an Adept Robe? I restarted again; this time he put on a rare exceptional Apprentice Robe with no such problem. +++UPDATE I thought he didn't update the Sikra quest but I'd restarted from a 31m save taken when the quest had already been updated.


__________________________

regards, Richard

In some of the converted

In some of the converted custom maps the monster level adjuster actually disables itself is there any particular reason as to why it does this.

31n notes. I've run 2

31n notes. I've run 2 groups, a Ranger and a fighter that I turned the MLA off for.

Got to Stonebridge with the first. The Ruby Gargoyle went down easy since I stood out of its range and used a bow. I see the Hearseeker still wont drop Sad . could not hire the 2 other then gyorn but was short of funds when talking to Naidi. Noticed the different hiring Icon which fades away after talking to them regardless of whether you recruit them or not.

The fighter with the MLA turned off had a MUCH harder Time. hit blue levels in Edgar's basement and beyond, Krug scouts and some royal turkeys. A few monsters never attacked, The Mimic was level 34. The caged Phracks and one rat where level 15. In the Crypts grgoyles and skeletons where mainly level on except for the Mini-bosses(lvl18) and Ruby Gargoyle(lvl15)
Scouts,and dogs where lvl2 and Phracks lvl 1 while Grunts where lvl17. I have not yet tried by removing the MLA mod.

now either on to Quillrab or to Destroy the Shadow Gate Mr. Green smiling Dwarf war cry Dwarf war cry

MLA

KillerGremal wrote:
I can understand this point, this 'player levelling speed' vs. 'mappers level assumption' is missing... However the increasing level number is probably only one reason to play this game!?

Absolutely, leveling itself is least of my concerns in an rpg, it just breaks the flow or feel to me. Makes the world seem artificial because there's no sense of weaker or stronger foes. The best example of this in this case would be the rats that spawn sometimes when you break barrels. with MLA active those little buggers are vicious. I've had high level characters die before I knew what was attacking me from those.

KillerGremal wrote:
Concerning the difficulty, if you don't want the difficulty to stay on the same level, should the gameplay become easier at higher level or harder? Of course I also miss some flexibility, for example without level adjustment the gameplay would become harder if you run through monsters/areas to face later in the gameplay higher levelled monsters with lower own level - I just don't know how to reproduce such a behaviour with a mod.

You hit the nail on the head, It's not that I think it should get harder or easier. But there should be a sense of pacing. Pacing adds tension. You can rush forward, perhaps handling most things but you're cautious when you see a large nasty towering above the treeline for example. If everything is an equal level then you get Oblivion syndrome where you fear nothing because you KNOW that dragon is going to fall in 5 hits.

KillerGremal wrote:
Which ones do not scale well? The skitters? I'm not aware of a 'broken' Skitter that would invert the whole concept, or in parts.

When I played through without any mods Skitters were of no concern, I had to watch the larger mobs in that area. With MLA it was reversed The skitters would wipe my whole party if I didn't lure them in one by one, whereas the larger creatures were no threat at all because they appeared in smaller numbers. The rats in the barrels thing again. It becomes a question of how many creatures there are vs how strong they are. The characteristics of a monster still play in to its difficulty but not near so much as how many of them there are. Especially if they're ranged.

KillerGremal wrote:
I don't think there is a table which DS1 monsters are harder and which ones weaker, although such a table or any corresponding rule to estimate it would help a lot.

I may have something like that on one of my hard drives; I'll take a look.

KillerGremal wrote:
Strange indeed, the Level Adjusment mod should only activate itself on the Erthos Struggle map. Usually the mod must be activated by the map or by the player. For the regular DS2 gameplay I just recommend to take the Rune of Mending with you for missed/delayed side-quests (not to face for example a level 15 Garagenturax when you are already level 35).  

Agreed. Is there a way to perhaps invert the monster_adjust_world flag to insure the mod ignores certain maps? (ex: monster_adjust_world = -world.ds2map)

All that said, make no mistake I am highly impressed with both yours and and iryan's work. I've done my fair share of modding for diablo 1 & 2, tes games, freelancer and many others over the years. I know how insanely obnoxious it is trying to remold an engine to do something that would be dead simple if you had the source code or if the developer hadn't chose to hard code something. Making simple mods can be a pain, making things that globally affect the game is a serious undertaking and you both should be extremely proud of it.

KillerGremal's picture
Auxiliary Nature

raithe wrote:
. . . My main problem with MLA is there's no reason to lvl. Everything stays at about the same difficulty the whole game. Even if you have to backtrack. . . .
I can understand this point, this 'player levelling speed' vs. 'mappers level assumption' is missing... However the increasing level number is probably only one reason to play this game!?

Concerning the difficulty, if you don't want the difficulty to stay on the same level, should the gameplay become easier at higher level or harder?
Of course I also miss some flexibility, for example without level adjustment the gameplay would become harder if you run through monsters/areas to face later in the gameplay higher levelled monsters with lower own level - I just don't know how to reproduce such a behaviour with a mod.

About backtracking, I had to to rethink first how far it's possible that monsters maintain their initially adjusted level, so you can go back to fight monsters with lower levels just for fun (or lower loot).

 

raithe wrote:
. . .
Not to mention some monsters do NOT scale well. You end up with what should be trash mobs being the most deadly because they swarm and they're the same power as the big brutish things that SHOULD really hurt, but never do. (this is really noticeable with those sand skitters in Valley of the Azunites for example) So it inverts the whole concept.
. . .
Which ones do not scale well?
The skitters? I'm not aware of a 'broken' Skitter that would invert the whole concept, or in parts.

Note maybe, specially related to DS1=>DS2 ported maps the Level Adjustment mod is no 'Map Balance Adjustment' mod or so - it basically focuses stats and how these stats change according to GPG's formulas, but it doesn't care (can't care) if a concrete monster type is pleasant for that region, if there is an ambush, if the monster comes in hordes or as lonesome estray.
It may easily happen that the monster you will get in DS2 doesn't really match the monster/difficulty type it had in DS1. I don't think there is a table which DS1 monsters are harder and which ones weaker, although such a table or any corresponding rule to estimate it would help a lot.

 

raithe wrote:
. . .
the only way I've found to make MLA not active in the orig DS2 map is to remove it's file from the resources folder. I was under the impression that it should only activate in maps that tell it to, but whenever I play a normal ds2 game here come the level matched ha'ku even if I'm lvl 86 in mercenary.
. . .
Strange indeed, the Level Adjusment mod should only activate itself on the Erthos Struggle map. Usually the mod must be activated by the map or by the player.
For the regular DS2 gameplay I just recommend to take the Rune of Mending with you for missed/delayed side-quests (not to face for example a level 15 Garagenturax when you are already level 35).
 

I didn't know about the

I didn't know about the limited number of custom maps the game could have.Thanks for bringing that up.

bare_elf's picture
It has worked for me since June

Sorry Iryan,
I thought it was released, I have been using it ever since you and I discovered that DS2 could display only a very limited number of maps.
I can display in DS2 or BW map selection screens all the maps for DS2 associated with the Legendary Mod, the retail maps, Dark Elf's mini maps and the third party maps that you and KillerGremal have done.

Elf


__________________________

**************************************************************************************************
There is no point it is all a dream someday I will wake and really screem wishing I was back in this strange little dream.

A well established DS2 Bug

DrXann wrote:
The recent updates with revision n for the maps bugs the campaign selector so that Dungeon Siege 2 doesn't appear in the list but the modded ones do.Is there any issues on other peoples end?
That's not so much to do with the Legendary Mod but more to do with the limited number and space DS2 assigns to custom maps in the map menu. The bug has been around since the last patch which seemed to introduced it. It was never very noticeable since there were so few maps available for DS2. The bug was fixed with Broken World.

I have made a fix for it available here: http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/UI/DS2_Map_Selection_Menu_Fix_v1.zip

- The Map Description can now display at least 40 characters.
- The Map Info Information now works and can display up to 4 lines of text with 36 characters per line.
- The number of possible maps has been extended and tested up to 26 maps.

Just place the fix in the DS2 resources folder. Please note that while the fix is compatible with Broken World, the map selection menu will be justified to the left due to Broken World's higher menu resolution. There is nothing wrong with the Broken World map menu so this fix isn't necessary for the addon.

I would appreciate feedback on the fix. It has been available since June this year but never released due to limited feedback. If it works for all DS2 users, I'll post it in the thread heading and maybe bare_elf might add it to the downloads here at SiegetheDay.

The recent updates with

The recent updates with revision n for the maps bugs the campaign selector so that Dungeon Siege 2 doesn't appear in the list but the modded ones do.Is there any issues on other peoples end?

Re: I got the updated files and

raithe wrote:
I got the updated files and it seems like it fixed some of my issues. Unfortunately that was JUST before the newest batch of 3 a few posts down so I'm unable to test it without MLA. My main problem with MLA is there's no reason to lvl. Everything stays at about the same difficulty the whole game. Even if you have to backtrack. Not to mention some monsters do NOT scale well. You end up with what should be trash mobs being the most deadly because they swarm and they're the same power as the big brutish things that SHOULD really hurt, but never do. (this is really noticeable with those sand skitters in Valley of the Azunites for example) So it inverts the whole concept.

Added to that the only way I've found to make MLA not active in the orig DS2 map is to remove it's file from the resources folder. I was under the impression that it should only activate in maps that tell it to, but whenever I play a normal ds2 game here come the level matched ha'ku even if I'm lvl 86 in mercenary.

Think I'll try my hand at editing the monster levels for a bit. See what I can come up with.


The monsters should have varying difficulties as all solitary or uncommon monsters inherit from strong_tank base templates while more numerous, pack monsters inherit from either common, weak or trivial base templates. It certainly works with health and minibosses as with KOE adjusted to a difficulty level of 100%, minibosses can certainly kill outright vulnerable party members.

The MLA mod is KillerGremal's work so maybe he can look into it for you. With editing monster levels by hand, so to speak, in their templates, certainly feel free to do so. You can use the table I posted a little earlier as a basis, adjusted with comments from others. The monster levels are found in the actor block in their leaf templates.

bare_elf's picture
31N update nice

iryan wrote:
The only changes made to the Utraean Peninsula has been in Elddim, a new NIS, a new recruitable character, another that has been moved and all 4 starting recruitable characters are conditional who can recruit them. Without a bit of work, you will only ever be able to recruit 3 of them no matter what your starting class is.

I see you used KillerGremal's starting class selector as found in Diabloish I always like that feature. I also like that some of the hireable characters will not let you hire them based on something about your skills, race or whatever. For Example Tiahna will not allow you to hire her if your a ranger.
Now as to Tiahna when i figured out what was needed to hire her I found that her head/face color is brown like Arisu but her body is light green. As a quick fix I just used the body color Arisu has on Tiahna. Now it is back to finishing Legends of Aranna.

Very nice update iryan

Elf


__________________________

**************************************************************************************************
There is no point it is all a dream someday I will wake and really screem wishing I was back in this strange little dream.

I got the updated files and

I got the updated files and it seems like it fixed some of my issues. Unfortunately that was JUST before the newest batch of 3 a few posts down so I'm unable to test it without MLA.

My main problem with MLA is there's no reason to lvl. Everything stays at about the same difficulty the whole game. Even if you have to backtrack. Not to mention some monsters do NOT scale well. You end up with what should be trash mobs being the most deadly because they swarm and they're the same power as the big brutish things that SHOULD really hurt, but never do. (this is really noticeable with those sand skitters in Valley of the Azunites for example) So it inverts the whole concept.

Added to that the only way I've found to make MLA not active in the orig DS2 map is to remove it's file from the resources folder. I was under the impression that it should only activate in maps that tell it to, but whenever I play a normal ds2 game here come the level matched ha'ku even if I'm lvl 86 in mercenary.

Think I'll try my hand at editing the monster levels for a bit. See what I can come up with.

Flooded Sanctuary in the

Flooded Sanctuary in the Peninsula. Several creatures would attack without drawing a response so vision height needs adjusted. Sometimes only the character attacked would respond and other times everyone would just stand there. Have not tried it with the farsee hack on yet.

When approached from side one NO buttons on wall, when I reached the other side (side 2) a button appeared on side 1, when going back to side 1 the other button appeared but Neither could be clicked on

While continuing to hunt Bone Minions Smiling Twisted evil I will upgdate to 31n and start a Dryad ranger in Ehb

Dwarf war cry x-mastree

Partial Update Beta31n

There's a partial update Beta 31n released mostly because of an inadvertent crash bug in DS2 due to incorrectly assigned modifiers in some items. Unfortunately it is also recommended to download Kingdom of Ehb and the Utraean Peninsula again since the current Beta31n makes changes to those maps which could cause issues in current games. Some aspects of saved games could still be broken, mostly a couple of quests that have changed. This only extends to the Orchard Cellar Quest in the Utraean Peninsula but extends throughout the questline in Kingdom of Ehb.

http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Mod_Logic_Beta31n.ds2res
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Map_World_Beta31n.ds2res
http://www.techiem2.net/~iryan/files/Betav31/DS1_Map_Utraean_Peninsula_Beta31n.ds2res

The only changes made to the Utraean Peninsula has been in Elddim, a new NIS, a new recruitable character, another that has been moved and all 4 starting recruitable characters are conditional who can recruit them. Without a bit of work, you will only ever be able to recruit 3 of them no matter what your starting class is.

The Kingdom of Ehb has had a bit of work right to the end but currently only tested to the beginning of the Fortress Kroth region. Characters recruited back from the Inn should level up but only if you respond to their conversation upon being recruited again from the Inn. If you cancel the conversation the flick controlling their levelling will probably break. Choosing to view their skills also doesn't work. There's also an option to permanently disband party members the same way as pets because now there's 39 recruitable characters over the 4 maps which is way more than the Inn can handle (credit to FreakCandy for the mod).

The conditional recruitment of party member extends through Kingdom of Ehb so even though for the first time all 16 recruitable characters are available, they can't all be recruited in a single playthrough. Some are skill dependant, some are race dependant. Only the 5 "free" recruitable characters from DS1 don't have some sort of conditional recruiting on them. The rest have a new icon denoting that they may be available to hire. Just talk to them to see if they will offer to join you.

Monsters have had provisional levels assigned to them up to the beginning of the Crypts for anyone who wants to test it without the MLA mod activated. As mentioned in the earlier posts, some monsters have been assigned new skills and abilities but this is largely untested.

Re: Kroth reminder

RSimpkinuk57 wrote:
The missing legionnaires are a serious problem. Whatever else may be wrong with the altered template base_npc_male_combative_ds1 in Logic_Beta31m (e.g. two talk flicks) I think you should look for and remove BW-specific code. Meantime I've re-tanked for myself a 31mk which is as 31m except for reverting that one template to what it was before. (For some reason my DS2RES came out at about double the size of yours.) With this I've restarted my party beside Boryev and gone forward again to Kroth. So now I might finish testing 31m through to Gom (fingers crossed I won't find any more of the still-offending weapons). I hope to have a bit more time for this up to Christmas (I'll then be out for a week).

E31m#103 Pirate quest-giver's icon does not change from gray ? to orange ? when the pirate captain is killed and the new task activates to report back.

(Two other things about this quest: the two soldiers could be turned back into proper legionnaires, better fitting the story; and the quest dialog and instructions are clumsy in story terms. A soldier wants you to kill the pirates so his route will be clear to return to Kroth. But he and his comrade have just explained that they didn't want to return to Kroth, they were going the other way with a message for Glacern. At least they were until learning your party has been sent from Glacern as the only reinforcements Kroth will get. In any case the pirates aren't blocking the route, you can get past them by keeping to the left, uphill from the signpost. They should be fought for the fun of it and for whatever treasure they have, good idea having a quest to draw players' attention, but having to go back to the quest-giver afterwards seems a bit of a waste of time.)

(PS I've just come up with an idea if you'd like to hear it.)

E31m#104 The Kroth potion-seller's displayed convo does not match the voice-over (the latter comes straight from the DS1 original).


Most of these have already been fixed. The problem with the legionnaires isn't caused by broken world specific code as it manifested in my games with the previous version (only after release of it) and I use Broken World. It's caused by the code I used from KillerGremal's Utraean Militia or more likely an improper implementation of such code which caused the actors to not persist when reloaded. I solved the issue by setting their expiration class to never.

I do like the way KillerGremal made the combative npcs act in a more realistic way in that they aren't just simply invincible but can be KO'd, etc.

I've said before but there's issues with trying to change a quest giver's icon status from anything other than a talk flick or at least I've not been able to get it working any other way. One possible solution could be having two versions of the quest giver with a property changing gizmo making one or the other visible or invisible as required. Messy but it may work.

I've already changed the two soldiers to legionnaires and tidied up their conversations as you're right, they conflict and don't add up as the legionnaires were sent from Fortress Kroth to get reinforcements, not trying to get back there.

I'll check the Kroth's potion seller's conversation. I've been using more branching conversations in this version and this could be one case that could benefit from that. And of course I'm always happy to hear any ideas you may have. I've already implemented quite a few of them so many thanks for your suggestions.

As always RL has interrupted progress on the interim version 31n but its basically ready. I've just been waiting for KillerGremal's next content pack version which is suppose to include an improved auto levelling of party members returning from the Inn. I've successfully implemented a flick based version triggered from the player confirming the party members conversation on returning to the party but the show me your skills doesn't update and the flick can be broken if the player cancels the conversation so the party member won't update their level to the hero's level.

As well some monsters will be a little nastier. Thanks to KillerGremal's help some monsters will now have the smite skill which the player has access to in the melee skillset. Zombies and some other undead should also be able to infect you if you get too close. Some bosses have also been tweaked.

I'm at Kroth - reminder

iryan wrote:
While rebalancing the item list I discovered a couple of weapons that still use a modifier from Broken World. I suspect this is what's causing your crash.

This could also explain bare_elf's crash if she was using vanilla DS2 and had one of the offending items in her inventory. When attempting to save the game it would most likely crash when getting to the offending item.

My apologies for missing these couple of items. The logic.ds2res should now be fixed and I'll upload it latter on today if I get time

iryan wrote:
An update ... is imminent, I've just been distracted on working the start of the Utraean Peninsula since the current ds1_mod_logic.ds2res makes a few changes to it. Hopefully that will be ready soon for some testing and feedback,

The missing legionnaires are a serious problem. Whatever else may be wrong with the altered template base_npc_male_combative_ds1 in Logic_Beta31m (e.g. two talk flicks) I think you should look for and remove BW-specific code. Meantime I've re-tanked for myself a 31mk which is as 31m except for reverting that one template to what it was before. (For some reason my DS2RES came out at about double the size of yours.) With this I've restarted my party beside Boryev and gone forward again to Kroth. So now I might finish testing 31m through to Gom (fingers crossed I won't find any more of the still-offending weapons). I hope to have a bit more time for this up to Christmas (I'll then be out for a week).

E31m#103 Pirate quest-giver's icon does not change from gray ? to orange ? when the pirate captain is killed and the new task activates to report back.

(Two other things about this quest: the two soldiers could be turned back into proper legionnaires, better fitting the story; and the quest dialog and instructions are clumsy in story terms. A soldier wants you to kill the pirates so his route will be clear to return to Kroth. But he and his comrade have just explained that they didn't want to return to Kroth, they were going the other way with a message for Glacern. At least they were until learning your party has been sent from Glacern as the only reinforcements Kroth will get. In any case the pirates aren't blocking the route, you can get past them by keeping to the left, uphill from the signpost. They should be fought for the fun of it and for whatever treasure they have, good idea having a quest to draw players' attention, but having to go back to the quest-giver afterwards seems a bit of a waste of time.)

(PS I've just come up with an idea if you'd like to hear it.)

E31m#104 The Kroth potion-seller's displayed convo does not match the voice-over (the latter comes straight from the DS1 original).


__________________________

regards, Richard

KillerGremal's picture
Fast, not perfect

iryan wrote:
KillerGremal wrote:

Since this list is region-specific obvisiously, with a little text editor manipulation it only would take some moments/minutes to assign a concrete level to all monsters placed in a region.

Let's say all monster in a region should have level ~27, and supposed the text editor used supports the replacement of multiple rows, then the following replacement had to be done in the actor.gas file of that region:

	[placement]
...had to be replaced with these rows...:
	[inventory]
	{
		grid_width = 27;
		grid_height = 28;
	}
	[placement]
This defines the minimum and maximum level (which value is greater doesn't matter) the Level Adjustment mod is allowed to assign approximately (with some variance for bosses or summons).

After this editing/replacing it may happen of course that now there are two [inventory] blocks for one actor, but note that the second/lower block will be ignored in-game and in SE2 as well. So NPCs will keep their equipment assigned in the SE2.
However if monsters have already an SE2-made [inventory] block (rather unusual though) then the grid data must be added/merged manually.


I assume however that the above method only works if you keep the MLA mod enabled? The discussion has been about assigning levels with the MLA mod disabled.
. . .
I'm aware of it. But since it's quite hard to calculate the right monster levels for a map region, this tweak can help perhaps to find pleasant levels empirically, also there is not (instant) need to create 5 wolves templates just because wolves are placed in 5 regions.

 
There should be another 'mod state' probably too, not only on and off. Right now there is not way for the player to avoid the 'grid level' range if level adjustment is enabled.
This may be wanted by the mapper/modder perhaps, but gameplay-wise it may leave the impression to the player that such a map is quite useless until you have the right starting level.

Re: Fast Level Fixing

KillerGremal wrote:

Since this list is region-specific obvisiously, with a little text editor manipulation it only would take some moments/minutes to assign a concrete level to all monsters placed in a region.

Let's say all monster in a region should have level ~27, and supposed the text editor used supports the replacement of multiple rows, then the following replacement had to be done in the actor.gas file of that region:

	[placement]
...had to be replaced with these rows...:
	[inventory]
	{
		grid_width = 27;
		grid_height = 28;
	}
	[placement]
This defines the minimum and maximum level (which value is greater doesn't matter) the Level Adjustment mod is allowed to assign approximately (with some variance for bosses or summons).

After this editing/replacing it may happen of course that now there are two [inventory] blocks for one actor, but note that the second/lower block will be ignored in-game and in SE2 as well. So NPCs will keep their equipment assigned in the SE2.
However if monsters have already an SE2-made [inventory] block (rather unusual though) then the grid data must be added/merged manually.


I assume however that the above method only works if you keep the MLA mod enabled? The discussion has been about assigning levels with the MLA mod disabled.

After the first couple of regions in KOE, the above approach can be easily used for the default monster levels in the actor block as level progression is slower (in FH_R1 for example, the hero will go from level 1 to nearly 4).

An update using this method is imminent, I've just been distracted on working the start of the Utraean Peninsula since the current ds1_mod_logic.ds2res makes a few changes to it. Hopefully that will be ready soon for some testing and feedback,