DS1 Legendary Mod for DS2 Beta Thread
| Submitted by iryan on Tue, 2012-04-24 23:39 | ||
This thread is devoted to comments, bug reports and fixes and discussion about the DS1 Legendary Mod for Dungeon Siege 2 and Dungeon Siege 2: Broken World. Full version Installer version DS2 Legendary Mod v1.01 at MODDB Split version Installer version Hotfix for fades issue in Kingdom of Ehb v1.01 Please note that the mod must be installed in the Dungeon Siege 2 resources folder even if you own Broken World. Unexpected glitches will occur if you don't. The installer version also includes a number of min-mods and a simple mod manager to enable them, which isn't available if you download the mod as separate modules below. Here's the links of all required files for the full version as separate modules; Please note that the DS1 Content Pack is included within the mod but for reference here's the separate download link; Mod Game Manual Current Readme for KillerGremal Mods This mod allows players the opportunity to play Kingdom of Ehb, Utraean Peninsula, Legends of Aranna and Yesterhaven from the original Dungeon Siege in Dungeon Siege 2 and it's expansion, with all the benefits that provides. Think of it as more of a remastered version of the original Dungeon Siege than a mere port to a newer engine. The mod is based on Killergremal's original work on the Utraean Peninsula, Kingdom of Ehb and Yesterhaven, found at this thread; https://siegetheday.org/?q=node/1330 Elys All*Saves or Elys' Succubus Manager is recommended to play the mod, which most users of this site probably already use. However either use v1 of All*Saves or turn off the seefar option in the launcher as the mod incorporates seefar moods directly in the maps for better balance without the glitches and distortions caused by using a too high a level of seefar in the launcher. Version 1 of Elys All*Saves is distributed in the installer version in original DS2 (v2.2), Broken World (v2.3) and Steam versions. Partial Language Translations Forum Threads for KillerGremal's Mods +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please put any comments, suggestions, reports, etc. about user made maps into that thread rather than here. All maps should be fully playable from start to finish but please expect bugs as they are still only alpha versions. forums: |
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2.2, Mod Logic Beta32f, Map UP Beta32d, MLA Beta5r set to Disabled
=============================================
(SeeFar Hack off, as in every other Report; the only time I turned it on was for my little side investigation the other day)
Party of 5 leaving Meren (3 of them level 31, though only just); party of 6 into Lang (3 just reached level 34)
Speaking to Priestess Janeira for the Lang Townstone quest completed the Travel to Lang quest and its missing task.
This is my party that explores thoroughly for more monsters to kill. They have been all round the swamp's almost-island where the Elddim and Meren roads arrive, poked their noses into all the huts along the way into town and cleared out the Isle of Tretches (Lost Witch's island) to the west of their road. They ignored the monsters they could see on their left (east) very close to town on another island - they might go out that way and circle round to the goblins' entrance - nor have they gone to look for the Sulphur Tunnels.
This party having overtaken my MLA-local party, I'm now taking the monsters this map has in common with KoE as the "intended level". Nothing I met was too high. Odd that the Gorgak miniboss (Firstborn) is level 26 when the ordinary ones are 29. Spitters in the swamp look to be on the low side at level 25 when swamp monsters generally are 30 or 31.
Iryan, I like the new monsters you've brought in (new compared to original GPG DS1). Including the bandit Spellsword and Nightblade. Perhaps introduce them slightly earlier, e.g. a pair with the quest-target Bandit Boss; perhaps also bring back the throwing-weapon female ranger bandit from last year's last KoE, a female melee bandit and a dual wield (though not KillerGremal's level-45 one). NB I've not seen what tweaking you may have done to the bandits in KoE.
The Giant Spider dropped no loot at all, mild disappointment.
Back in Meren, this party was unimpressed with their haul from the Pirate Captain's "treasure" chest: 61 gold and two cheap reagents.
It would be nice to have reagent merchants and enchanters added at Meren and Lang, although the party can always teleport themselves to Fallraen or Elddim to visit one. Meren at least has plenty of spare people available.
Besides the non-undertaking undertaker I spotted two more same-name NPC pairs at Meren. Also, where is Jerisa's husband? Her convo implies he should be there at Meren but Raucia's that he is not - unless Raucia herself is the husband!
U32d#42. When game reloads at Meren, Priest Tas stands scarecrow.
U32d#43. Gather point on elevator out of Meren, please.
U32d#44. Approaching trader Verrus, crossing stone bridge DARK_FOREST_R2 8.ii5/1.393/5.244 0xE0A67E8C, there is a Forest Klaw underneath, where there is no way down to collect any loot dropped should it be killed (a mage did Drown curse it).
+++Edited here+++
U32d#45. Trader Endar Gareth, third time convo, warns against coven of witches on "south" slope of M. Utrae: wrong, say "other side" because the Lang-wards descent is not to the south, but to the west and north. (The banner overlay calls this "North Slope" when "West Ridge" would make the geography clearer, since the "Alpine Reaches" ascent was also from the north).
++++++
U32d#46. "/n/n" in Lang potion trader's convo.
I started a new Character and named her Falin the Russian varient of the Irish name Fallon, meaning leader. She is turning out to be an Oracle, if I had known that would happen I would have named her Larry Elison. The leader of the company Oracel. I plan to re-run the Kingdom of Ehb 32F map with MLA set to local mode to see if I once again encounter Ice Archers and Ice Warriors in the level 40 range when my party is several levels lower. I have to prove to myself that I was not mistaken, since no one else has found them.
You're not the only one that has seen them and they should now be fixed. However the update has not been released yet. Maybe by the end of the week and it will for the first time have a log of fixes as I've compiled everything into documents which I tick off as I complete them. Most bugs only take a few minutes to fix.
There's should already be one there but doesn't seem to work. There's a few that act that way.
All the other things you've mentioned I'll add to the log of bugs/comments/requests, etc. and get to them as time permits.
Sorry it's too much of a pain to fix that particular elevator. Already it has taken me more time to get to the current state than it probably has you or the other testers to play the entire map.
However again it would be a simply matter to create another portal taking you back to the top once Gom has taken his final breath.
Did you know in the steam version of DS1, once Gom has been defeated and the NIS plays, apparently Square-Enix has changed the ending that no more play is possible and the credits instead start playing. I haven't seen this myself, only seen a couple of post on the forum at Steam about it.
I've not been that far in UP, but have just tried the same monsters (Torecks) in KoE and confirmed the report (except that I did get one response from my party - they cast healing spells on the member being attacked). That was in a different mode (Wait instead of Rampage) and then I realised my Hero Defend Automation option was OFF. When I turned it on, my party did attack the Torecks back, so an inconclusive result.
I notice the Krug in the picture is not on the radar. So could it be a corpse that failed to fall over? I had one of those in the UP when rushing forward from a reloaded save towards something I wanted to check my memory of.
I'm giving it e serious try Bare_Elf :wacko:
I killed the Krug right after taking the screenshot, it dropped a nice Diablo ring
Do you remember the update I made for you last year? - A similar disfunction is mentioned+fixed there:
http://dungeonsiege2.net/ds2fun/box/DS1_Map_Multiplayer_World_Beta_21_TinyTuning.ds2res.txt
Well, this was for Beta 21 in March 2014. A lot of things may be obsolte or incompatible meanwhile, but some other tunings may still help (like making a lever 'standard' to profit from the auto-gathering feature).
Concerning the time passed however I strongly recommend manual update, copy the things over manually where useful.
So if interested nonetheless, the corresponding update mod is still online:
http://dungeonsiege2.net/ds2fun/box/DS1_Map_Multiplayer_World_Beta_21_TinyTuning.ds2res
However that is the node ID of that elevator?
And did it work in DS1 as intended or was it already broken by the orginal design/setup?
I remember it but for some obscure reason haven't incorporated it into the map. Have done now and will be interested to see if it works. If so it should help in various other situations where the gather points aren't working. Thanks very much.
I believe it worked in ds1 rather like the elevator in castle ehb once the player first triggered it, remember the one that keeps going up and down automatically?
However it was broken when converted to ds2. It would go down and then back up and never go down again ever. Party members could conceivably get stranded at the top. It had so many revisions that I can't recall all the particulars of the early setups.
In the last public version, I ended up putting levers that would reveal themselves once the elevator was activated (or so I believe). It worked in private testing but it appears not always in the public version.
In the latest limited beta update of a week or so ago (beta32f) I made the elevator work only the once but it would activate a portal that any stragglers at the top could use to rejoin the party at the bottom (or alternatively the entire party could use it if they activated the elevator but jumped off before it started descending).
Now I think I'll add another portal at the bottom that will be revealed once gom is defeated, so bare_elf & other players can use it to retrace their steps.
There is an obvious issue with water in ds2, that's probably why there's few areas with combat in water. Certainly nothing compared to the amount in ds1. Generally however its the monsters with the issues, not the party. I will have a look but will probably have to wait until I can actually play the area, either through a proper playthrough or a party warpedto the spot.
@iryan: On Utrea I remeber 3 elevator matters.
- The Hub/displacer matter is still unsolved...
- There was a problem too with the elevator after Crystwind from the Mines towards Fallraen which could be fixed with a thin but very/rather tall mood resp. frustum height to ensure that the elevator gizmo - even at the opposite end - is still within the loaded area.
- Also the huge tower elevators around/above the Eastern Island could be fixed - however it was a bit more complicated and I can't remember the details, besides of this there may be still some fading matters if the player splits his party.
I think I will allow Falin and her party to continue through the Kingdom of Ehb 32F. I have a new character Gytha a Level 11 Oracle with two Fledgling Dire Wolves waiting for KoE 32G.
The displacers have been largely superseded by the Direct Connect Points so they are no longer a concern.
As for the other two elevators, I believe they have also been fixed in the current version, the exit from Crystwind Mines caused a few issues as late as beta30 -should the player try to turn around and re-enter the mines straightaway after reaching the top (I know as bare_elf tried that exact thing). Certainly splitting the party would be unwise around these two areas and probably should be done sparingly in all other areas considering that the regions in the Utraean Peninsula are often a lot bigger than in DS2. The editor even complains about too many vertices whenever you try to load the dunes region.
Sorry, gather point does work if I just pull the lever (as KillerGremal's mod txt describes). I'd forgotten how gather points should work and was wanting my party to auto-arrange themselves BEFORE I pulled it. Same with the Ancient Temple elevator (my log U32d#35).
In DS1 the elevator worked, I presume as intended, that is goes up and down automatically, starting AFTER Gom is destroyed. The party is taken to Gom's cell by NIS (no chance to buff, summon or change weapons/spells while going down).
I've been experimenting (in DS1). It was possible to have people left behind, by spreading the party out beyond command reach (of the trigger point?) and then the laggards can be moved onto the elevator which does then work as an elevator. I think every time it goes down, it goes back up again, and anybody aboard at the top triggers it to go down, but only Gom's destruction puts it on full automatic cycle. (I haven't gone so far as to check whether the victors really do get rescued in this case.)
A triggered one-way portal into Gom's room would be a simple solution to keep the gameplay the same for DS2, perhaps with the elevator as the way back out afterwards.
Personal news.
While looking for a game saved just before Gom's elevator, I found a renamed folder with my DS1 UP saves (Myros SP mod).
News from UP (more to follow).
Meren's potions-and-spells seller has been accused of infringing the weapon-and-armor shop's monopoly (now that the local demand has collapsed with pirates and bandits chastised).
With the secret plan for world conquest lost, the goblin inventor has set his remaining followers to making a wet paper bag big enough to test whether the future Mk.III robo-suit can fight its way out of one.
Broken World 2.3 All_Saves Start, Kingdom of Ehb (DS1_Map_World_Beta32F), MLA Beta 5R set to local mode
With Torg Glitterdelve Mine
Quest Log
Primary Quests -- Seek Gyorn in Stonebridge
Secondary Quests -- Clear Edgaar's Basement, Skrubb the Beach Clean, Find Ordus' Axe, Clear Glitterdelve Pass, Rescue Torg,
Problems, Errors and Comments
No undiscovered problems
Character Stats
Falin
Level 23 Sharpshooter
Class Stats -- Melee 1, Ranged 21, Nature Magic 10, Combat Magic 10.
Naidi
Level 23 Sharpshooter
Class Stats -- Melee 0, Ranged 21, Nature Magic 8, Combat Magic 9.
Ulora
Level 23 Sorceress
Class Stats -- Melee 0, Ranged 0, Nature Magic 8, Combat Magic 22.
Zed
Level 23 Sorcerer
Class Stats -- Melee 0, Ranged 0, Nature Magic 13, Combat Magic 20.
Gloern
Level 22 Knight
Class Stats -- Melee 20, Ranged 0, Nature Magic 14, Combat Magic 0.
DOG (Dire Wolf)
Level 23 Knight
Class Stats -- Melee 23.
2.2, Mod Logic Beta32f, Map UP Beta32d, MLA Beta5r set to Disabled
=============================================
Party of 6, leader was level 34 at Lang, level 37 at the Abandoned Mine Shaft
(Pit of Despair completed too, report on that to follow)
Party has been all round the Mire (but never far from dry land) including both to the meadow that is a short cut to the Redwood, and to the Sulphur Tunnels exit. Portal to Mt.Elspen forest works, despite this party not having asked the dwarf in the quarry about the Sulphur Tunnels when talking to him. Would the portal be there even if party hadn't been to the quarry?
Lang Townstone Quest: task 1 "SEARCH FOR THE LANG TOWNSTONE (Find the Lang Mosquito Stone lost somewhere around Lang)" completes not when party finds stone but when party finds the Goblin Warrens entrance. SUGGESTION: Since the priestess quest-giver has already said that goblins took the stone, something like 1. "PURSUE THE GOBLINS (Find where the goblins went who took the Lang Mosquito Stone)". Then task 2 as it already is.
Boardwalk south to Redwood meadow has a cross walk with hut of trolls right and Incantation Shrine left, OF_R1 0.515/1.000/3.272 0x265EA250. There is a Hydrack in the water I'd never have found if I hadn't remembered it from DS1. It looks like it might be just in range to attack anyone at the Shrine (this needs to be measured) but triggers only for someone in the water.
(In DS1, obviously GPG had to prevent the Hydrack from attacking any character using what was then a Resurrection Shrine. I guess it was there to catch anyone who has taken to the water in an attempt to avoid trouble, but if it can guard the Incantation Shrine, why not?)
U32d#47. (Inherited from GPG). In the Outer Warrens before the travelling platform there is a superfluous valve over to the left, SWAMP2GI -1.591/6.000/0.107 0x2D973275 that can be turned (once only), perhaps turning on a sound effect but making no other difference. I'm guessing GPG's idea, not implemented, was that the lever to fetch the travelling platform would work only after the valve had been turned. So either make this the case or make the valve non-interactive.
U32d#48. Mk.II Robo-Suit! Each of its four independent magic attacks gets past party member's armor and resistances to do just 1 health point of damage. (Even if no mage has Stolen Magic from it and even if target character reduces resistances by removing rings.) Please someone check out the KOE Robo-Suit again.
(By the way, the radar background in this Goblin Caverns section lacks detail definition, which at least means it isn't wrong!)
U32d#49. At start of the short tunnel on the way out of the Goblin Caverns, party "enters Goblin Warrens" again before Redwood Gap. Going through the wrong way is even worse (doing so from the save at the DC outside was my easiest way to double check my original observation, but a party could do this deliberately from the boardwalk-and-meadow short cut): that way messages show the party to be in Goblin Warrens all the way through what should be Goblin Caverns, in Goblin Caverns all the way through what should be Goblin Warrens, in Goblin Warrens again the whole of the upper level which is really Goblin Outer Warrens, and "enters Goblin Outer Warrens" briefly just before correctly "enters Lang Mire".
E31n#106/E31p#111 (Problem from KoE confirmed in UP). Party found a MECHANIZED SUIT (DS1-extension armor I believe, converted for combat mages). Two members of party can wear it. On Briahra it looks right (as it did on Ulora). On Ivlsar it is black-and-yellow stripes just as on Boryev, so a male/female thing.
U32d#50. Redwood Gap's black wolves are level 30 so presumably using template wolf_black_ds1 (as in KoE Dark Forest) instead of level 36 wolf_black_02_ds1 (as in Bonepicker's Post forest).
U32d#51. Trader-and-quest-giver Rhud Emell has dual icon of {potion bottle / grey ?} when should be {potion bottle / orange !}. Talking to him, hero's negative sign-off for not trading is "I didn't want to disturb. Farewell". "Disturb you"?
U32d#52. At Abandoned Mine Shaft, a party member (Arisu in my case) has doubts about going into the Pit of Despair, but ends the convo "I strongly advise going down". Should be "... against going down"?
I did not find any level 40 Ice Archers or Ice Warriors this time with the MLA mod set to local.
That's to be expected as the local mode sets the levels between a certain range, overwriting the base level set in the monster's template.
All reported level discrepancies in the disabled mode have been corrected in the current, unreleased version which is nearing release status. I just have to check the "roadblocks" I've put in Stonebridge, Glacern and Droog City.
As you may remember Iryan the last time I went through the map, with MLA set to local (verified) I found lever 40 ice archers and warriors. Oh well.
Here's the latest version for testing;
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Betav32/DS1_Map_World_Beta32g.ds2res
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Betav32/DS1_Map_Utraean_Peninsula_Beta32g.ds2res
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Betav32/DS1_Mod_Logic_Beta32g.ds2res
I've also compiled a list of the over 100 bug fixes, adjustments & revisions made to this version thanks to bare_elf, RSimpkinuk57 & sigofmygmort especially for their detailed feedback.
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Betav32/KOE_BUG_REPORT.pdf
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Betav32/UTRAEAN_PENINSULA_BUG_REPORT.pdf
Now all of these fixes & revisions aren't completely tested at all. I did test the new 'roadblocks' added to Stonebridge, Glacern & Droog City to ensure they worked and didn't inadvertently prevent the player from progressing through the KOE map. Others like the minor level adjustments should work quite fine but there are a couple of changes to quests like the 'Threat to Hiroth' which have been redone and are currently untested.
Some other items haven't been attended to yet and they've been left for the time been as they could be quite time consuming to fix. For instance I have no idea why the Goblin Robo Suit isn't doing the right amount of damage and this extends to both maps as the Goblin Robo Suit Mk II is just the original renamed.
Please let me know if the so called fixes aren't in fact working and I'll get to them as soon as I can. Thank you.
Hello Iryan,
The new bug report files are great! I installed the new files for KoE and Utraean Peninsula and will start testing tonight. Thank You
2.2, Mod Logic Beta32g, Map UP Beta32g, MLA Beta5r set to Disabled
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I second bare_elf's motion: the bug reports are great.
Party reloaded at Lang has been teleporting around UP towns and running around low level areas testing what they can easily. I've found some 32c bugs are now fixed though not mentioned in the report - perhaps because fixed in 32d - but others outstanding:
Fixes tested confirmed
Note - I ran into the Furok Cave and found Lagreth alive and talking when party had left him for dead long before.
But ...
NB new issue: wrong regional names for Hovart's Folly (Great Hall and North; South not attempted) in reverse direction
Fixes failed
KoE
===
Yes. There are breakable cages in Krug camps all the way from after the broken bridge to the gates of Stonebridge. Some have always held gremals, some maybe now have chickens, but one - only the one - certainly has a rat, with its own template, level 15. It is in Futak's camp. Phraks are quite common (also level 15); the first is in the camp before the Crypts, some - I'm pretty certain - outside the watchtower, others in the last camp of all, but I'm not sure about in between. (This in Beta31p.)
My recent reminder post listed everything I'd changed for myself once, for my own satisfaction; checking my notes - on one of many loose pieces of scrap paper - I find there were also
As much a mystery then as your earlier mage losing skill levels in a save reload.
Goody, time to suspend Dragon Age and Assault Gom
:twisted: 
Thanks, from now on I will start categorizing the confirmed fixes by version as it may be confusing to know whether a reported issue has/should already be fixed. It's easier to do as KOE & UP maps are now in bug fixing mode rather than development mode (I don't plan on adding any more features or major changes to them unless required to fix some bug/exploit/etc.).
Obviously some of the failed fixes from beta32g will have to be attended to in a following version.
Thank you very much for your detailed feedback, it really helps me to quickly attend to the problems, especially if co-ordinates are provided when relevant. I'll look at everything and start a new list of things to fix or revised but I'll comment on a couple of the most interesting bugs/lacks.
For Lagreth I tweaked his template to act more like one of Killergremal's combative npcs but this essentially made him invincible - he gets knocked out instead of killed (just like crusader Goquua in Ehb). This is one case that's needs a lot more experimenting to get right.
MLA mode makes everything more accessible no matter how many barriers are placed before the player. Perhaps in this case it may make sense to have npcs give the quest instead of a letter in Hiroth? One npc could be located in Hiroth and the quest started just like it does currently. Another npc could be the guard outside of the North entrance to Hovarts Folly. Flick checks could be created so that only one of these npcs gives you the quest and the first task point moved slightly so that it's not so adjacent to the North entrance. This setup would also give the quest earlier to those who requested it in recent feedbacks.
The alternative would be to add a door to the North entrance to Hovarts Folly preventing exit from it into the forest. However how far do you go in trying to restrict player's movement around the map? MLA players can freely travel from Elddim to Lang, enter the Great Northern Forest from Elddim and reach the Island, Lava Caverns, Pyramids and even Grescal before finishing the first quest. From Lang they can enter the Goblin Warrens, Redwood Gap, Sulfur Tunnels and Mt. Utrae road before the first quest is completed.
My philosophy is that it's not worth trying to restrict MLA players any more than it is now, which is really a firm guiding hand in starting the main quest. Players can play the map normally with Local mode or the MLA mod deactivated where monster or regional levels will restrict the player or they can use the MLA full mode to play the map however they want so still providing a large degree of freedom of choice which is so lacking in many games.
Thanks for the reminders of where additional crates are located. I'll check them out and revised as necessary. Perhaps I'll try reverting most of them back to phraks as the issues with the crates seems to have been solved a while ago but I haven't changed them since.
running via DS2BW..
2.2, Mod Logic Beta32f, Map UP Beta32d, MLA Beta5r set to Disabled
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Party of 6, leader was level 37 at the Abandoned Mine Shaft, 38 close to 39 exiting the Fury Den
MLA-local party leader was 9 going in to Ancient Crypts and 13 into Hovart's Folly (South). This party having hunted more widely was 11 going into the Crypts but still only 13 into Hovart's Folly; I attributed the shortfall to so many of the Marshes monsters being low level (changed for 32g). Now I've been checking the experience table; that low down, an extra two levels there would mean my character having gained roughly 200 thousand extra experience, but at 38->39 this is merely one tenth of a level, so with MLA-disabled, 32g's adjustments to early monsters should make little difference where I am now.
Having found save files from my DS1 UP game (private mod over Myros mod) I can confirm that (playing the same way) total experience obtainable from the UP map as GPG had it was very close to that from KoE, so monster levels tuned for Legendary Mod's KoE should be good here unless too much extra value has been added. (I expect the Great Northern Forest to be worth a lot more but of course that'll be at the end.)
More level discrepancies:
U32d#53. Pit of Despair exit elevator not displaying correctly (black column) until ridden up - gather point got me on to ride it (at second or third attempt)
U32d#54. Flooded Sanctuary, north end room (north from first large room with shracks behind gratings): mouse pointer turns orange making me suspect two Unguis not triggering, either side of WD_R1 -0.098/-1.500/-0.889 0xB9E244C1
U32d#55. How to get a Googore to move (looks peculiar away from its hole!): cast (Lesser) Grasping Vines which immobilises as well as damages it, when the spell-induced immobilisation expires it becomes mobile. Mine Worms presumably the same but unlikely to be put to the test (at their level).
Pit of Despair
Difficulty was erratic - for which blame GPG, I'm sure. Some evil mages were ineffective. Players more familiar with DS2 should recognise from the light effects what they were trying to do but my guess is they were continually casting curses that could not work because my characters were protected by Spirit Embrace.
On the other hand I had to resurrect characters several times, which I never have to do in normal play. This was not a case of having to re-spawn the whole party because when all are KO'd the monsters then cut all their throats or something, but of individuals sent straight from alive-and-kicking to tombstone. Even my best-protected character (shield melee tank) was insta-killed (how?) at the beginning of a fight by one of the same mages that then became ineffective.
Dual-wield melee fighters I had to keep running from and shooting at - (lesser) Grasping Vines was a great time-saver.
Yes the fights were fun - the first few of them - and it was satisfying to have got through them all. But I don't think they belong. The end boss was much easier - took a bit of time but hardly dangerous at all. Even with the level discrepancies of the daemons etc resolved the fighting will still be grossly unbalanced between mazes.
Fine for the last maze - all those catwalks where finding clickable spots to make characters move is quite hard enough without having to fight too - to be an intermission between many monsters the maze before and the boss fight afterwards.
(By the way, I consider there are three mazes only, separated by the two doors, albeit with the middle maze in two parts, because anyone getting lost in its second part can compound the problem by straying back into the first part without realising it. Yes the daemons floating in mid-air - another great touch - will help if players haven't shot them down. I don't mind losing the loot but it would be better if they didn't drop any.
Shadow Watcher reported spending longer in the Pit than the whole (of the rest of) the journey from Lang to Quillrabe, getting lost repeatedly. Which is the whole point of the mazes. With the advantage of still having my own thorough maps of all the mazes from before I still had to stay up way past midnight to finish my session, not from getting lost but from the time it took to fight my way around the whole of the first maze. Two reasons for taking a long time is one reason too many.
(And now I'm up just as late writing about it, but only fair to give others the chance to disagree.)
If all these evil heroes are worth having somewhere then better to put them into the LoA map in a new area - maybe even a copy of this the Pit's first maze - on the way into the bonus disco.
Next, the puzzles are neither one thing nor the other. (I realise time for the project isn't limitless and there is the question where it would be best spent.) The door out of the first maze is open, but the skulls that (in the original) had to be collected to open it are still there. Either put things back so the skulls must be collected to open the door - in which case turn them into journal quest items - or replace them by treasure chests.
If the door out of the first maze is already open, then (to help players who remember the DS1 original to keep both hair and sanity) the quest-giver should explain so.
The door into the last maze starts closed but opens to the touch after giving off the now-redundant riddle. Again, reinstate that the ankh is needed to open the door (make ankh and artefacts quest items), replace it by a particularly valuable treasure, or (since plenty of other chests have been added) do away with riddle and artefacts altogether and make non-functional the "binding mages" to which they had to be given.
And either remove the green tree symbols I spotted on the ground, or go through with the implied idea - I thought it a great one - of replacing the artefacts by DS2's colored balls of Sight, Life, Blindness and Death. Back to the first maze's skulls - there is plenty of room in the corridor up to their door for four sockets, each opening the next and the last opening the door. Three skulls, four colors with which to replace them, where to find the fourth ball? Well there is that chest quite close to the start but in a place that cannot be found by the simple maze-solving rule of keep your hand on one side wall and follow it round. Or the dead-end corridor parallel to the one up to the exit. Or simply have one ball next to the entrance elevator.
With enough traipsing around after balls (or skulls) no need for any opposition, but perhaps something trivial and familiar, and/or one slightly tougher monster in each of the unavoidable last three rooms before the final gallery.
My own opinion is that following a marked trail is not "conquering" the Pit - especially as Town Portal is available as an escape, I presume, but yes there is a case for having one to help players get out at least (be nice if more were needed to tick off the tasks though). Anyone who wants not such help doesn't have to look.
In the first maze, the trail is a long detour from the shortest route. Why? Just to lead the party into extra fights? The longer trail would be some help if the skulls (or colored ball replacements) did have to be found.
In any case the quest giver should make it clear that treasure chests are all off-trail. To further help players maybe the task descriptions in the quest log could say how many there are to find in each maze? Also, consider making the first maze less dark - it was hard sometimes just to see across and make out the shape of small rooms in the middle. The catwalks maze is well enough lighted and the middle deserves darkness - the burning monsters are great for showing where the party hasn't been yet.
My lead character, a melee fighter who already had a choice between two progressive armors, Hovart's and Olaf's, found a really good progressive helm in the final chest, also Ibsen Yamas' shield there or earlier. The party also went in with progressive Woodland Leather for a ranger but the mages are asking when will there be something for them?
Does Rhod Emell sell those colored pots (like the Elddim smith does)? I don't remember him doing so.
P.S. KoE
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Cages and crates - quite different. Phraks from crates, barrels etc were a random "loot" option. The cages' contents are visible and constant.
1 - When I arrived at the broken bridge on the path to the crypts I had no problem talking to Skartis the magic salesman. However I did not receive an on screen massage about saving here would restart the game at this point. So I saved to test it and when I restarted I was standing next to Skartis just as I should have.
2 - Ruby Gargoyle dropping heartseeker, not fixed.
3 - On arriving at Stonebridge I went directly to the back gate without talking to Gyorn and could not pass the back gate, so ran back to the front gate and spoke with Gyorn and the block was removed. So the block is working correctly, and if I chose to I could have hired Gyorn.
4 - I could not speak with Naidi, Zed or Rusk. They had no conversation at all. They all had the conversation Icon when I pointed at them but no words at all, they also all had the three crown icon over their heads so they should have been hireable. I had no problems talking to any other person in Stonebridge. Maybe I got a bad download, I will try downloading again to see what occurs since I did not save in Stonebridge.
UPDATE -- Downloaded DS1_Mod_Logic_Beta32g and DS1_Map_World_Beta32g a second time and still could not converse with Naidi, Rusk or Zed.
UPDATE 2 -- I looked at the differences using WinMerge between version 32F and 32G world\maps\map_world\regions\bt_r1\objects\actor.gas and beyond the changes for Guard 3 conversations in connection with the blocking object (having to talk to Gyorn) there are changes to Naidi, Zed and Rusk.
The 32F version of Naidi (same layout for Naidi, Zed and Rusk) and the 32G version of Naidi. All the same information is there but in a different layout.
Naidi 32F
[t:naidi,n:0x00600137] { [conversation] { talk_flick = naidi_hire_talk; [conversations] { * = conversation_naidi_accept; * = conversation_naidi_disband; * = conversation_naidi_disband_rejoin; * = conversation_naidi_join; * = conversation_naidi_reject; * = conversation_naidi_rejoin; * = conversation_naidi_multiplayer; } } [placement] { q orientation = 0,0.798636,0,0.601815; p position = -10.0251,-2.9,1.97276,0x51d490ef; } }Naidi 32G
[t:naidi,n:0x00600137] { [conversation] { talk_flick = naidi_hire_talk; [conversations] { * = conversation_naidi_accept; * = conversation_naidi_disband; * = conversation_naidi_disband_rejoin; * = conversation_naidi_join; * = conversation_naidi_multiplayer; * = conversation_naidi_reject; * = conversation_naidi_rejoin; } } [placement] { q orientation = 0,0.798636,0,0.601815; p position = -10.0251,-2.9,1.97276,0x51d490ef; } }I could not find any other files in world\maps\map_world\regions\bt_r1 That had any differences between version F and G. What did I miss Iryan?
I'd be very interested hearing what other players think about balancing the Pit of Despair. Perhaps only having monsters in the first part of the maze like was done in LOU (with perhaps keeping the floating monsters in the other mazes?).
I never bothered trying to solve the Pit of Despair in DS1 as I believed it was a massive waste of time, considering you only got some random treasure and the sightless helm for conquering it. In LOU I added a few monsters to the start and made the rest of the maze lighter so navigation was easier. I still never bothered to conquer it.
I tried making navigating the Pit easier for DS2 because of one major issue. You can't save your position and reload from that position in DS2 unlike DS1. You can save at any time in the Pit but reloading the game will mean you have to start from the beginning again (as I added a DC point at the bottom of the abandoned mine shaft).
It seems I still made progress through the Pit very time consuming due to the number of monsters within it. I am open to suggestions about how to improve the experience for everyone. Incidentally many of the triggers in the Pit were broken because they way they operate in DS2 is incompatible with the way they were set up in DS1. So I left most of them deactivated as I probably spent close to 20 hours or more refining the Pit as it was.
Also the premise of the Pit of Despair was based on some mid level bonus dungeons that exists in one of my most favourite games of all time - Star Ocean 3 - Till the End of Time. Annoying and time consuming to conquer but with unique enemies not found elsewhere in the game. It also had some nasty puzzles to solve.
Adding another bonus region to LOA in order to fight the doppelgangers could be feasible. A clone of some other existing region used as a base for instance. Or perhaps add it to the end of Yesterhaven as I think everyone would agree that the ending is very underwhelming (obviously the enemies would be scaled inline with what level would be expected by the end of Yesterhaven for balance in local, deactivated MLA games). And yes Star Ocean Till the End of Time had such a bonus dungeon near the end of the game to play as well.
I adjusted Naidi, Zed, and Rusk so they matched the 32F version moving the multiplayer from the middle to the end of the conversation list, no help they are still broken. Please when you figure out why I can not talk to Naidi, Rusk and Zed tell me where the error was so if it happens again I can fix it. While I am waiting I am off to look at the updated Utraean Peninsula SE
Please find this hotfix that should fix the problem. Delete the old mod logic file.
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Betav32/DS1_Mod_Logic_Beta32g_fix.ds2res
There was a scripting error left in the templates when I adjusted them. Didn't cause any issues until I also remove some redundant objects from the regions and so removing their scid names in beta32g.
I've found out that if you declare a scid name that doesn't exist in a flick, then the flick will break even if you actually don't use that scid name in the flick.
I have also fixed most of the minor issues reported so far in beta32g but since they are map based, I didn't reupload the maps at this point in time.
Did not get the check point reached message from Skartis with first party and when the double Mimic killed the character
I respawned at the farmhouse, also when continuing past Skartis a Town portal returned me to Home.
Started new character, still found Town portal taking me back to Home instead of Skartis until after saving and exiting game.
Heartseeker did not drop and Ruby Gargoyle using melee attacks is an easy kill just by staying in the Hallway and using ranged attacks.
Interesting that the Pillars Block spells but not people
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