Dungeon Siege III and its expansion.

All I've heard are the old vague hints at the DS team working on a new project (no word on what it is...). This was back just after BW was released, so maybe something more has been leaked...?

As for ideas for DS3 changes, I made a couple posts on this subject within a big Garage thread a while ago (I may post copies here... if this thread gets interesting).

In that interest, I'll add to this topic, to make it more interesting.

Myself, I have heard nothing regarding a possible DS3. But, we can probably expect one. Look at it form a corporate point of view. Why end a series when the previous game was successful? Oh, I think they will most likely keep Dungeon Siege going for some more time.

I think it might depend. On the one hand you have a very popular game like Diablo2 which seems to have stopped after the LoD expansion and then you have a series like The Elder Scrolls, which is up to four now (I think...not clear.) I think it would depend on the company's loyalty to the franchise itself and to the gamers who own DS. From a purely subjective and somewhat superficial point of view, I would like to see better looking character models. The ones in DS2 seem very homely and somewhat ungainly to me.

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Total absence of humor renders life impossible.
Colette

OK, I found the topic so here are some of my ideas for DS3:

Number one on my list of ideas is customizable party member AI (for party members not being controlled by the player). Each character would have their own default script (according to their background story), but each player should be able to customize a character's behaviour according to their play style. Custom scripts should be usable in MP without all other gamer's having it installed too (the scripts should be included as part of the party information uploaded to the game host).

This first idea goes along with a second idea: restricting the player to the control of their hero only. Non-hero party members are 100% controlled by AI. I think this would be much more "RPG" like... (you are a "hero" accompanied by a party of individuals, each with their own personalities).

I like the new autocasting feature (as a good start at character automation), but the poor formations options are disappointing. For a new game I would want modifiable character AI settings... preferably changeable on the fly in game (i.e. with no modding tools required). Think "Baldur's Gate", and you're starting on the right track.

Things I'd like to see as being controllable in the character's script are:
- Aggression (when to attack an enemy, where in formation the character is when exploring...).
- Enemy selection (when there are multiple enemies to attack)... choosing from options like "protect healer", "defend self", "attack closest", "attack weakest", etc...
- Automated weapon / spell swap in combat according to circumstances (change spells if enemy is immune / resistant to current spell, change from ranged to melee if enemy is in melee range, change from dual-wield to 1H+shield if taking damage too quickly, change from spells to ranged weapon if out of mana...).
- Automated use of special abilities / Powers, under specified circumstances (boss battle, crowd control...).
- Automatic potion usage by individual character health / mana thresholds.
- The ability to set a healer to auto-revive a fallen character.
- The ability to configure autocast buffs according to target character class (fighter buffs on melee chars, caster buffs on mages...).
- etc...

Perhaps enabling the option for customized AI scripts could be earned by completing a character's side quest, or only enabling the option after the player has completed the first difficulty level...

One other small thing I'd like to see... both: difficulty levels (easy, normal & hard) and world levels (mercenary, veteran & elite).

I just thought of another request: a truly scalable GUI. If I run the game at higher resolutions (so things look nicer) I shouldn't have to deal with tiny inventory images and microscopic fonts.

They need to include the most redeeming elements from various RPGs to create a single great one, while retaining the storyline and plot of DS, and being sure to include that thing that just says Dungeon Siege in your mind when you play it.

I wouldnt look for a DSIII for at least 2 years, thats my opinion, as GPG will probably be making an expansion to Supcom, and i have read that the next game they are making is suppose to be "Funny".

as for what i want to see in DSIII:
1. I want DSIII to have a save system like the original DS, that way if i mess up or want to go back to an area and redo it again i can. would also help modders to fix the crc.
2. Bring back the DS and LOA spells, like create health potion, all the summons, transmorph and clone self. DSII shortchanged on us spells
3. Bring back all the DS and LOA items. both games had more weapons and armor than DS2 had. Shortchanged again on the goodies.
4. Multiplayer map and Singleplayer map both. we got shortchanged yet again in DS2.
5. More character classes.. similar to DiabloII Expansion or NWN2 Polearm class specialists, or Druid shapechangers, etc.
6. Bosses that arent confined to rooms.. eg Valdis, Dark Mages, let them move like the Bosses in DS. Chase me all over the freakin place, i dont care.
7. No spell casting in towns.. argh i hate summons being cast in town, using a town portal and using mana again to cast summons, or better yet make it so summons can travel through town portals and teleporters.
8. Allow monsters to enter towns if need be.
9. Party all gets on elevators. I dont know how many times my party has had to go up and down an elevator cause they didnt all fit, esp with 5 and 6 party members.
10. More more more. more of everything they included in BrokenWorld.

So it has been written, and so it shall cometh to pass! Quothe The Darkelf, forevermore!

I'd like to make a plea for less, less, less.

1. Less effects just to show off. There's no reason that every weapon has to glow, sparkle and drip colored light.

2. Less spells, not more. Fifteen different ways to cast lightning is no better than one, especially if the mob is immune to lightning anyway. They need more use in combination, like the use of debuffs to remove immunity before casting the damaging spell. It would be nice to be able to set up sequenced attacks by a single character that way, instead of making one party member do each one.

3. No character classes. Why lock anything off because you didn't choose it at the beginning? DS's big plus for me was that you could develop what you wanted as you progressed through the game. However, if you develop skills, it would be nice if they could add together, so for example, if you did combat magic AND archery you could fire explosive arrows - more range than a mage, more firepower than a regular arrow.

4. Get rid of Powers. They made PvP unworkable, and complicate the UI. If a "save it up for later" feature is needed, then have special ammo, or single-cast spells that need to be made in advance, and use up inventory space.

5. Less grotesques and more human adversaries, especially sneaky ones, where you don't know who to trust. The green/oranges outlines might have to go, or you'd know who's not really on your side.

6. Area effect and focussed attacks for everyone. Let the player choose whether to hit a single mob hard, or a lot of them less hard.

But I'd echo the "no autocast in town" one. You can't eliminate all spell-casting in town if you want to allow monsters to follow you inside, or mages get creamed!

Abstraction site
Dungeon Raider

Well guys, is this just a wish list? I was under the impression that it would be for finding out any information regarding a possible DS3. That's what I'm most interested in.

There is no official word about DS3 yet, at this moment GPG has too much success with supreme commander and they said somewhere, as Darkelf said, that their next game will be a funny console.

DS3 with DX10, now there's a thought...
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..never mind the weather, just as long as we're together!

I think people are doing both, trying to find info and discussing ideas...

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Total absence of humor renders life impossible.
Colette

You know, if a Dungeon Siege 3 does come out, I fervently hope they don't have a stupid tutorial to wade through every single time you want to start a new game....Is the learning curve that steep that a tutorial was decided necessary for DS2???

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Total absence of humor renders life impossible.
Colette

A tutorial is fine, but there should be the option to skip it. I see this a lot in other games.

That would work, giving the option to skip the tutorial. I like to start different characters myself and try different things and simply got fed up with having to go through that tutorial over and over again.

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Total absence of humor renders life impossible.
Colette

They could have easily had a separate tutorial with DS2... as a mini-map. The interface was already a part of the game.

...and I agree with some of the comments on suggestions, especially the one saying that sometimes less is more.

Ok, I think you all know already one of my desires for the new game, since I've talked about it here recently, but I'll go ahead and repeat it.

I want a huge map, with all the territories from DS1, Yesterhaven, LoA, DS2, and DS2BW, and whatever new areas are developed for DS3 and its expansions, all in one map, so that your character/party can travel over the entire continent (and yeah, there was a Cataclysm, etc, with cataclysmic effects, but if we're talking about the difference between an entire Age and so on, surely the "half-life" of the residual "radiation" would not leave most of the continent barren for that long a time; deserts are interesting environments, but the Vai'lutra Forest, Redwood Gap, the Cloud Forest, Greilyn Isle, and the territory around Glacern and Fallraen and Snowbrook Haven and so on are also interesting environments, to say nothing of the Volcanic Caverns). More environments make things less monotonous. The Plain of Tears seemed to drag on forever, with little break in the scenery from the blasted desert wasteland environment, unless you went into a structure/cave/ruin/magical oasis.

I also think that all the monsters and items from all the games should be available in the new game, with but few exceptions (certain spells, which I'll discuss below).

I'll grant that some of the spells are redundant, and some are (in my experience) pretty useless, but I do like variations on things like electrical damage, ice damage, fire damage, etc (so, for example, DS1 Multispark and DS2 Multispark are both good spells, as are the DS1 spells Lightning Bolt, Storm, Lightning Storm, and others like this, and Encase, Ice Storm, Icefury, etc). The DS2 thing, where you've got Lesser, actual, Greater, etc, seems redundant. Make one spell, and let the damage, radius, and duration increase with level and/or intelligence, not five spells each with a limit on how much it can be developed before you have to buy a new spell.

I also want to see Nature Mages able to deal the same sort of damage Combat Mages do. In DS1, Cyclone of Fire was probably the most potent spell. Why not duplicate that in the form "Cyclone of Ice" and have it ice-based for Nature Mages, doing the same amount of damage, but in a different form? "Game balance" is a tired excuse for this sort of prejudice, especially if you're going to have PvP involved (and I do think that PvP should be an option).

In DS2, the electrical damage spells were taken from Nature Mages and given to Combat Mages, which I don't like. Combat Mages already had a couple of main types of power they worked with (Fire and Death), and by taking the Lightning spells from Nature Mages, they have been reduced to basically Ice spells. Some of those are pretty nice, admittedly, like Encase, Greater Encase, etc, but what's with the limitation to only one sort of power? Okay, so there's also Ripple, which, I believe, is Non-Elemental, and that's cool, but there doesn't seem to be enough Non-Elemental magic in the game for Nature Mages to make up for the loss of Lightning magic.

I still want to see something like a paint option, so that armors can have their colors changed relatively easily, without having to resort to picture editing programs and modding in order to get the look you like with the color you like. I really like the style of the Tribal Armor in DS2, for example, and it certainly blends into the jungle well, but once you're out of the jungle, you might like it to have different colors (I certainly would, even in the jungle --- the camouflage doesn't actually prevent the mobs from seeing you, after all, so while it blends in with the environment well, that blending serves little purpose).

I also still think the lesser armor rating allowed to mages is unfair. Why should a robe not be as protective as Battle Plate, in a world where magic is a given? If you're looking for a way to make it make sense, just think "illusion." Battle Plate can be made to *look* like anything you want (even the stereotypical chain mail bikini), with illusion, so just assume the robe is battle plate made to look/feel like a robe. See above about "game balance" before using that excuse to object to this. It was the D&D game which first popularized the idea that mages and metal don't mix, at least in terms of modern Fantasy. Tolkien had Gandalf in mithril chain, for example, and wielding a sword (and yes, Gandalf was actually an angel or demigod or something like that, and not really a "mage," but this is only one example).

Increase the size of the inventory, and increase the number of items that can be saved in a storage space. Also, add the backpack from LoA and retain the Storage Vault from DS2.

I don't like the auto-drink potion suggestion, sorry. I am a huge fan of Elys' work, but that's one aspect of her Succubus mods/modlets that I find annoying (at least until you've nearly maxed out your character), in part because it doesn't distinguish *my* potions from those of other members in my party, but also because potions get used up too quickly. Example: You're just about to kill the mini-boss, all of your characters are getting pretty low on both health and mana, and they auto-drink, and then the mini-boss dies, and you have plenty of time while you're going through all the loot that just dropped so that the potions were wasted. Okay, they're not that expensive, but still, unless you find a vendor out in the wild, come upon a mana bush or health bush, or want to go back to town, you may not be able to replace them before you need them.

I do like more options for character appearance and race. Being able to tweak the character's appearance in terms of eye shape and color, hair length and color, facial shape, skin color, height, weight, body shape, etc (and not just by clicking through a limited number of pre-designed options, but actually changing the character in a custom manner --- I'm sure most of you have seen a certain other game, which I don't play but which allows this sort of thing, and I won't defile this site by mentioning that game's name here). Elves (of various sorts, mind you, not just the one type), Dryads, Dwarves, Half-Giants, Humans, all of those are good and should be in the new game, but additional options would be good as well. Elys' DS2 Succubus included Nymphs and Vampires and other options, which are worth looking at. SJR's DS:Abstraction has Amazons (and a nice selection of Elves, as well as several interesting NPC races). Other options might be something like Fey and Sidhe, Halflings, Gnomes, and so on.

Lycanthropy/Berserkr ability is another idea that I would like to see worked into the game. In LoA, there were spells that allowed characters to shapeshift, so it's possible to implement this suggestion, but it would need to be tweaked beyond what the LoA spells allowed (I found them pretty useless, for the most part, unless you just wanted to look like this or that creature, because by the time you were able to cast the spell, there were not really any advantages to the shift in shape other than aesthetic ones).

Flight (either magical by means of spell or item, or via winged characters like Fey and Sidhe, or by means of mounts, or better yet, all of the above).

Sea travel (and naturally, boats and ships) is another idea I like (especially if it enables or facilitates the movement from one map to another which I've suggested at the beginning of this post), and if the game designers are feeling ambitious, they could even work ship battles into the game somehow.

FIX THE BLASTED CAMERA ANGLE ALREADY!!! I want to be able to get it down to eye level. I also would kinda like to be able to look up at the sky and see how many moons there are, what position the sun is in, what stars are visible (and this could also figure in to the sea travel, as in navigation by means of the celestial bodies, which might even suggest the possibility of finding an uncharted land, where even more "secondary" quests can be found ...), etc.

Related to the last one, how about different perspective options, like being able to have the character's view (as in looking out from the character's eyes), as well as the overview currently in use?

I'm sure I'll think of something else about the time I click the "Post comment" button, but if not, something else will probably occur to me in a day or two.

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Giovanna

Oh, yeah. I like the reagents and enchantable items, and the reagent recipes feature in DS2 and BW. Keep that (and expand it).

See, I said I would think of something else about the time I clicked "Post comment."

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Giovanna

If you have auto-cast spell slots occupied by healing spells, those spells are getting cast already, even before the party member auto-drinks (or simultaneously, or soon thereafter), and those spells cost mana, which then results in the casters drinking mana potions, so there's even more waste.

This leads me on to other comments, in response to some of the other suggestions that have been made here. I do like the autocast feature (toss "Drown" in there and watch the low-level mobs drop while your party stands there doing nothing, which isn't too different from some of the "X-Armor of Greater Fireshot" or whatever, used along with "Shared Pain" and "Shock Armor" and "Orb of Energy" stuff from LoA), but if you've also got auto-drink, the two are redundant if any party members have healing spells in autocast slots.

I also don't think spellcasting in towns is a bad thing (and would be impossible in "The Kalrathia Rebellion," unless everyone in your party can use Ranged and Melée). After the earlier stages of the game, your mana should be restored fairly quickly after the autocasting to buff and summon, but if you don't want to wait and are concerned about the teleportation, you can do what I do: make frequent use the pause feature and click around to keep the other characters active till your selected character gets to the teleporter and selects the destination. Then all the autocasting happens after you've teleported. Alternatively, the game designers could allow summoned creatures to be teleported with your party, so there's no waste, and no wait --- as Darkelf said, this would be even better.

I agree with Sharkull about formations and Baldur's Gate. There should be some formation options, along with "Mirror," "Rampage," and "Wait." Isn't there one other one, something like "Protect" or "Guard?" I've never used it, and never even set up a hotkey for it, so I'm not sure what it is. But anyway, BG had parallel lines (both horizontal and vertical), wedge, circle, single file, and maybe a couple of others, which were very useful in the changing settings and changing situations.

But I think "Rampage" is sufficient for allowing the player to have control over his/her own character only (if that's what the player wants), and "Mirror" allows the idea of a "Party Leader" yelling "Focus on the boss!" Still pretty RPG-like, I think.

Regarding Summons. I like what Elys did in the DS and LoA Succubus mods, where you had Nature Magic spells "Call X" and Combat Magic spells "Summon Y," and could have one of each type active. After all, if the bosses can summon multiple allies (Gom, Valdis, etc, all summon way more than two allies), then why are their opponents restricted to a single summons? Yes, we can have other characters in our party, but some players like soloing, and in the case of a boss that summons 10 allies, what's a girl to do if she's all alone in the dark alley with the big bad guy and he calls his pals, too? I'm only advocating two summoned creatures at a time for each character, mind you, not an infinite number (though with a party of six, that means 12 more on your side, if everyone can summon two creatures). It's also possible, as Elys showed, to increase the difficulty of a foe based on the number of people in your party. That would probably be difficult with regard to how many summoned creatures your party has, for more than one reason, but the most challenging reason is that you and your party may not summon anything till after the battle starts (and once the battle starts, the foe's HP and MP are, usually, basically set).

I'm not crazy about having separate maps for MP and SP. I would like to be able to play the whole game I've paid for, whether I'm online or not. Just having separate maps is not a problem, but as I've already suggested, it would also be nice to have one big map that combines all the smaller maps, for those of us who would like to do a huge campaign (like, say, starting in Yesterhaven, moving to LoA, then on to Ehb, then UP, then DS2, and then BW, and then whatever comes with DS3).

As far as character classes, I'm of mixed opinions. On the one hand, I like being able to wear any armor, use any spell, and wield any weapon I find (as in DS1), but on the other hand, if the classes were a bit more flexible, more classes might be okay. In addition, Fist of Stone (Nature Mage/Melée Fighter) and Blood Assassin (Combat Mage/Ranger) are nice dual class options, but what about more, like Nature Mage/Combat Mage, Melée Fighter/Ranger, Combat Mage/Melée Fighter, and Nature Mage/Ranger, or even multiclass options, where you develop three or even all four classes simultaneously? The names are already in place (think of "Master" and "Grand High Siegemistress" and so on), so that much of the development shouldn't be a hassle.

The lift/elevator thing mentioned by Darkelf is something that does need to be fixed. It doesn't happen often, but it happens, and even once is an annoyance.

Personally, I like my weapons to glow, sparkle, and/or drip colored light, and the variety of effects is one of the cool things in the game, I think. Some of the new effects in DS2 are visually stunning. And after all, you're a legendary hero, aren't you? Shouldn't you have a weapon that is a legendary artifact/relic, and shouldn't it look the part?

I also like the special Powers. If it's a challenge in PvP, maybe they should not be usable in PvP (but that would only be workable if the setting were strictly PvP, and not a normal game in which PvP and Teams were allowed). Still, there are going to be ways to boost your character's armor, HP, MP, chance to block this or that sort of attack, and so on, by means of character editing, which will allow an unfair advantage in PvP to those who know how and are willing to do it. Some of this is a bit questionable in terms of whether or not it's "cheating" (you can make your character practically invincible just by editing, using the items already in the game in ways they were not intended to be used). I would not want to see that potential disallowed, even if it can be abused to some extent in PvP (the guilds all seem to have used these techniques for PvP on ZoneMatch, so it became a bit pointless to do PvP against someone who was part of a guild unless you also knew how to use those tricks, but then you might also wind up with two characters who could not kill each other).

The green outlines only mean "neutral," and the red outlines mean "aggro." You already know you're going to have a fight with the Morden Chief, but he and the other Morden in his room all have green outlines when you first confront them. If a mob is aggro, you'll know pretty soon, even without a red outline, but it does help you know when you've actually got the mob properly targetted.

The tutorial is okay the first time around, in helping you to learn some of the changes from the older game, but once you've played it once, there's no need to repeat it every time you start a new character (which you'll want to do if you've got several character options that are appealing, or character mods you want to try out).

Oh yeah, how about adding chain mail bikinis to the game? Okay, so maybe Sartan and Vix shouldn't wear them, but ...

~~~
Giovanna

My reference to Baldur's Gate was really pertaining to the party member AI settings (which you can control / change). I even believe that creating custom AI scripts (i.e. modding) was possible...

Not only that, but players should be able to control the special effects on their weapons.
When at an enchantress, there could be the option for adding special effects that are built in or even having a pop-up window with sliders and stuff to control and even make custom effects for your weapons, adjusting cost accordingly.
An aspect of the game where that may be useful is the "wow" factor of it. A sword that spews brilliant gold light will certainally intimidate krug more than a normal sword, and they should react accordingly. An NPC might react differently if you are wielding a giant sword spewing black decay than if you are wielding a teapot mace. *winks at kathycf*

Teapot maces can be very intimidating...if one's enemy is a teabag, for instance.

I have read some very interesting ideas here regarding future developments for the DS franchise. I think Giovanna may be on to something with chainmail bikinis but unmodded DS armors leave quite a bit to be desired in the "cute" department, and I don't think that is going to change. Their thing is in creating more of a unisex look, which is fine, I am sure. I just wish there were more options available for people who like more fancy "fun" armor.

I was looking at the Lineage game website earlier and I have never played that game and thus have no opinion on it but I really thought the armor was VERY nice. I also like the idea of making the same base armor look different on a male character than it does on a female. A female character doesn't necessarily have to wear skimpy or femme fatale stuff, but it is nice (IMO) to have a woman look like a woman. I know...I am such a girl. *rolls eyes* (and no ghastley, that doesn't mean I want my blue armor and boots to deal out extra damage vs my drab tan leather boots. :P)

*oops, that is Lineage II*

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Total absence of humor renders life impossible.
Colette

I like the suggestion by TAS about being able to select special effects on your weapons, and different fees for different effects, and the affect of those effects on opponents.

I've had a few more thoughts as well.

Dryads, Elves, Dwarves, Half-Giants, Humans. Yes, keep all of those for DS3. And, like I've said in an earlier post, add more options beyond those, and within those (types of Elves, for example, and types of Dwarves, and types of Humans, and this isn't just about skin color). I guess it would be difficult to work Agallan Giants into the game, due to their size and the limitations of the screen, but there are other options, some of which I've suggested already. I've got a little more to say about this below in the potential spoiler paragraphs.

But while I'm on the subject of character races, I was pleased to see that Tolkien's Sindarin, with additional material developed by Tel' Mithrim (and possibly others), had been worked into DS2. I would like to see that continued. At the same time, though, I was very disappointed by the mispronunciations of Sindarin found in DS2 (and which have continued in DS2BW). Come on, guys, the Appendices in the back of The Return of the King tell you how to pronounce things, and there's also Ruth S. Noel's book The Languages of Tolkien's Middle Earth, which also has a pronunciation guide. Celeb'hel is NOT "Seh-lehb-hehl." It's "Keh-lehb-hehl." C is never "soft" in Sindarin, but always "hard." "Edhel" is NOT "Ehd-hehl." It's "Ehð-ehl." That dh there is the same sound as the "hard" th in the English words "the," "these," "those," etc (it's the Old English letter Edh, rather than the Old English letter Thorn). In addition, DS2BW has at least one big mistake in the use of the language, in which the Vai'kesh leader says "Blah blah blah his mellonamin blah blah blah." HIS mellonamin??? Okay, look. "Mellon" means "friend." "Mellonamin" means "my friend." It's a compound made up of "mellon" and "amin" ("I, me"). So the Vai'kesh leader is saying "his my-friend"? What the heck does that mean? The Vai'kesh may speak a different language (more likely a different dialect, at best), but it's obviously not completely different from the language of the Elves in Aman'lu, since they were Aman'lu Elves at one time, so no Vai'kesh would make a mistake like that. "His mellon" would have been fine (although the double-L there isn't just an L sound, either -- it's an aspirated L).

(SPOILER?) About Storyline and Theme. In Ehb, your character saved the Azunites of Ehb from an ancient enemy they had locked up. In UP, your character again saved the Azunites, this time of the Peninsula, from the idealistic assumptions of their leaders, after running all over the place gathering Townstones for their leaders and then using them as directed. Both of these weren't bad. In LoA, you had to save the entire world from the foolhardiness, laziness (or was it cowardice?), and arrogance of the Utraeans (and the laziness or cowardice of everyone else, with a handful of exceptions that wind up being your party's NPC members). This was getting a little less likable. Your character is being used, just as his/her family has been used for generations (and which has recently, a decade or two ago, resulted in the deaths of both his/her parents), by people too lazy/scared/arrogant to do the job themselves. The presence of the "Historian" Therg in so many places makes you wonder just what's going on, and why he doesn't involve himself in the struggle. Still, it's not too bad if you assume some sort of "Prime Directive" code of conduct, and assume that Therg is not only "much more than a mere Historian," but also much more than he appears to be (some sort of divine being, maybe, and not just an Utraean). Then in Return to Arhok, one of the first things you are told is "In a final, selfless act, ..." you've allowed yourself to be frozen for umpteen years. Um, excuse me? I did no such thing. Once the LoA quest was finished, I was pretty disgusted with those people, the Utraeans and the people of Arhok both (that's not to say that I didn't like the game, because I did, the atmosphere was really much better in many ways than DS1, even with the additional content added, in part because of the new climate/weather/sky stuff), and the last thing I would have done would be to allow them to freeze me so that they could exploit me again. At least the Utraeans had, supposedly, realized the error of their ways and were trying something to make amends (although I don't think that their religious ritual of atonement was the only thing necessary for them to do). Now in Return to Arhok, we see that the experimentation has continued (if not by Utraeans directly). Well, okay, another threat to the world. Gotta deal with it. So then along comes DS2, and you encounter ill-tempered people from the beginning (Celia's self-righteous arrogance is what leads to the exploitation of the Dryads in DS2BW, and I can't count how many times I wanted to pummel that one Dryad shopkeeper whose flesh was crawling because she was dealing with "a follower of Valdis," even after I had killed Valdis!), so it's no wonder you're willing to trust the "Scholar" when he comes along and is relatively kind. And you would have done the things he encourages you to do anyway, after all. Valdis has to be stopped. Unfortunately, it wasn't Valdis who was the real threat. A threat, yes, and in need of being stopped, yes, but the real threat ... well, we know how that played out. Still, I felt more exploited at the end of LoA, and the plot twist at the end of DS2 was interesting, and gave you a hint of things to come. Because I haven't gotten to the end of DS2BW yet, I don't have much to say about the storyline/theme there, but I will note that the experimentation is extreme in terms of how horrific and gory it is, probably a little excessive (but, related to a different topic, I will say that the Bound Drayds have some visual appeal in some respects, so if someone can do an armor mod in which the bottom half of the Dryad Dervishes is part of the armor mesh, that would rock -- I'm thinking of the thigh boots and bikini bottoms, or better yet, and probably easier, if someone can make an armor mod that looks like the armor the Bound Elf Guards are wearing, but allow for different skin tones so that, for example, a Dryad character could wear it, that would rock).

(SPOILER?) I haven't finished DS2BW yet (I'm in Part 2), but I have read PapaGamer's Walkthrough, and it looks like most of the Dryads are going to be destroyed by the Overmage's exploitation, but Kirani, Ithara, and a few other NPC Dryads are apparently still around at the end of the game, to say nothing of Taar and Deru (at least if you have them in your party) and your own character (if you're playing a Dryad like I am), so the Dryads would survive (though perhaps in reduced numbers), and therefore can be retained in DS3. The Elves in DS2BW have been whining and ready to give up, they've been talking about how their race is coming to an end, etc. Gloom and doom stuff born of depression. Having not yet gotten to the end of the game, I don't know how that's going to work out, but I hope it's just emotional, and not actual. Since they've lost their visions, perhaps they just can't imagine a brighter future simply because they have no precognition of such a future. That's what I'm hoping, anyway, and by the next Age, they should have gotten over that (though it would be nice if their precognitive abilities returned). Anyway, I want to see both Dryads and Elves in DS3.

~~~
Giovanna

One of the disappointments about DS2 was the fact that the characters I had built up in DS1 and LoA were not able to be used in the new game. I spent many, many, many hours developing several characters in DS1 and LoA, and I was not pleased when I discovered that there was no way to convert them for use in the new game. I realize that the game is different, uses different meshes, has more visual appeal, etc. But DS1 characters could be converted for use in LoA, and DS2 characters could be converted for use in BW (even though that inn problem made things a little annoying if you had hired every NPC in the game and had them all fairly well developed and loaded their inventories with stuff you wanted to use later), so there really ought to be a way, even if it requires more work, to allow our DS2 and BW characters to be converted for use in DS3 and its expansions (and yes, I think the plural I'm using there is a good idea, too -- make more than one expansion for DS3). Now, if you could also allow our DS1 and LoA characters to be converted for use in DS3 and its expansions as well, ...

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Giovanna

How would you logically explain such a character import though? There is no, or very little, way the DS1 characters would still be alive during the DS2 age since it was 100 years. To me that would break the chronology of the metastory too much.

Well, in some cases, you've got races like the Elves and Dwarves with very long lifespans (the Elven mage Arinth, for example, is still alive in DS2, even though he flourished around the end of the First Age some 1,000 years ago), you've also got the frozen thing I mentioned in connection with Return to Arhok, and you've got the time travel element in Yesterhaven. It is a fantasy genre game, after all, so with the variables involving magic taken into account as premises, there could be a fairly easy explanation that could still result in a logically valid conclusion:

My character was a hero in the First Age of Aranna.
Magic exists and functions with sometimes dramatic effects in Aranna.
Magical suspended animation is a given in Aranna.
Time travel is possible in Aranna (in both directions, as seen in Yesterhaven).
There are races in Aranna which are noted for longevity (including Agallan Giants, Elves, and Dwarves).
My character (was frozen/stumbled onto a time portal/is an Elf/whatever).
My character (was unfrozen in/stepped out of the time portal into/has lived into) the Second/Third/Ninety-Fifth/whatever Age.
______________
Therefore my character is now alive in the Second/Third/Ninety-Fifth/whatever Age.

It doesn't have to be hard to come up with a rationalization of it, unless you assume that the Physical/Temporal/Magical-Technological Laws of Aranna are like those of this Earth, and we already know that's not the case, in several particulars (physical space, for one thing, is apparently radically different in Aranna, if you untank the dsmap files and look at things).

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Giovanna

Hehe, ok you are right. But that would however require a bit different metastory for it to make it enjoyable to me. Maybe the powers that be makes it so my character travels through the ages because of his/her Azunitean heritage or something like that. E.g. chosen to halt the works of someone with a darker heritage. As I see it now the ages are so seperated that I don't see a good reason to play an old character from an old age with a story that is unrelated to the current. I'd rather go with the current system instead and play a new character that is influenced and shaped by the current age. But that is of course only my take on it. ^_^

I thought that DS2 takes place like 30 years after DS1....just to the far east of Ehb. Far east.

Also, the GPG newsletter just came out. No word on DS3. However, with SC finishing up, we may see a DS3 in the works...?

I think you're right there LK... IIRC, Eva was after all supposed to be a hero from the timeline of DS1. Solly, it's BW that is DS2 + 100 years.

Now, what about the time setting for DS3? Prior to DS1 / DS2, or after? I'd like to see a completely new story, but it doesn't really matter which Age to me as long as it's something you can get into / become absorbed with.

I remember seeing suggestions before DS2 came out that it was the same time period, only on the other side of the world (it's not on the other side of the world, unless the planet has only one continent, or is flat) or that it was 1,000 years earlier and on the other side of the world, but everything I've seen since DS2 actually came out says it's after DS1. Maybe we could get someone from GPG to come look at this thread (which would be a good idea, I think, so they can get some feedback from the Dungeon Siege community about things we would like to see in the next game) and settle that question.

As for BW, that starts one year after the Cataclysm that happens at the end of DS2 (as noted in the beginning of the game several times).

~~~
Giovanna

Edit: There are a couple history of Aranna threads on the GPGarage, but I can't find the better one (which had everything listed in bullet form).