DS/DS2 graphics vs. other games graphics...

I don't play other games. (Only because I can't afford them though)

Someday I'll get more choices to play.

When it comes to number of polygons and that sort of thing then DS and DS2 feels very dated to me. But the graphical style of the game still appeals more to me than other more advanced games that I have played. It helps me emerge myself in a way that other more advanced games don't let me. It feels much more like a story to me which sparks my wish to be more creative about how I think about the characters and my games. Does that make any sense?

There are some critters in the game of course that turn me off because of how poorly they are made, but all in all I love the graphics.

Luckily i'm not such polygon-sensitive as others seems to be.
Also i think it's important here to distinguish between DS1 and DS2, eg. most weapons in DS2 have much more polygons than in DS1, just compare the meshes once with AnimViewer.

A really doubtable legacy of DS1 seems to be the texture quality.
Most armor textures in DS2 are still 256x256 as in DS1 although larger textures surely should fit meanwhile into a graphic card.
In particular the armors of half-giants or big monsters (like Orthac) often look quite washy and the fact that DS2 is using the lossy and compression-artifacts-afflicted DDS format (instead of Raw/PSD as in DS1) makes it even worse.

I guess larger textures did not fit on 4 CDs, and since DVD drives are very unpopular and in some contries probably illegal as well they decided for small graphics and compression. /

But generally i think too the over-all graphic impression of DS2 is ok compared with other RPGames i know.
Well Spellforce 2 does even look a bit better but you really must have strong PC (it's only half as funny having good graphics with 15fps :-o), Titan Quest would have a nice anticent graphic style but unfortunately this gets absorbed by a rough interface and a jolty/unsmooth camera conduct. The screen shots of Siverfall look very attractive, but if you try out the demo you will notice that you don't only need a better PC - you also should have a Phys-X card.
At least these are the experiences i made with an AMD 3700+, 1GB Ram and an ATi X800XL, usually at 1280x1024.

Sometimes it's really interesting how different people are thinking about the DS2 look.
Often details about the hardware or the exact matters are missing so you can't really get a good opinion, however playing DS2 at 800x600 with a detail slider only at 50% and no Anti-Alising i wouldn't be happy neither.

When I first played DS1, I was amazed by the graphics. My first journey into the Ehb swamp left me in awe at the eye candy and overall mood effects. It was clearly ground-breaking for the time (not just for the graphics either: no load screens, great gameplay / character development design, music, mods...).

Now, the DS1 graphics look dated... advancements in technology allow some amazing things. DS2's graphics weren't a huge step forward either. Shaders / shiny things are a nice addition, but I get the impression that they threw in far too many particle effects (swirling colours, clouds of light...) as a distraction to the dated graphics engine, and that's too bad. I find it a visual turn-off. The poly counts are low, and the texture detail could be better, but making combat nothing more than a colourful light show is unnecessary. IMO, it takes away from the fun gameplay. Always-on buff effects should be subtle, not hugely distracting visual obscurations.

As far as comparing things to other games, my basis for comparison is limited. Next to the Blizzard creations I've played (StarCraft, Diablo1/2, a Warcraft3 demo), the Siege engine graphics have always seemed to rock. Now, next to HL2 or TES4:Oblivion, the Siege engine graphics look lame. Yes, HL2 is an FPS, and therefore has less logical overhead for the gameplay stuff than an RPG, so I would absolutely expect that the graphics would be better... but I've recently been playing Oblivion, an RPG with 1st person / 3rd person perspective toggle. Sure, the hardware requirements are steep, especially if you want all the graphic settings turned up high, but if you can run it, the eye-candy is simply stunning. You can really feel a part of the world, because it looks so real. Add in the mod user-friendliness, with a community creating some amazing model and texture replacements, and you can really see what's possible now.

I have to say that looking at DS/DS2 in the light of more modern games (with higher system requirements...), the graphics look like only a marginal step up from the Diablo graphics. That's something I didn't think was possible a seemingly short time ago.

All that being said, DS/DS2 are still fun games. Graphics are not the end all or be all of a game. Gameplay is still the most important factor in how much I enjoy a game, and the Siege games are most certainly fun.

Ooo how I loved the DS graphics. This was actually the first computer game I had ever played next to paint The graphics were stunning compared to how it was at the time. I would get so into the enviroments that I would stay on for hours on end just fighting all the characters I could. Now with games like oblivion I feel that GPG in general needs to step it up. They advance then get behind. O and make a shitty game. It just doesnt help anyone.

It's OK to step up the graphics requirements for a game as long as you still support the lesser boxes with a fallback. I do think that the GPG games are good in that respect in having both automatic and manual settings for how much you want to stress your video card.

I've seen too many games that just won't play on last year's machine because you can't scale back the effects, as well as a few that sneer at you and have a single degraded mode if you can't support everything they want. There have seen a few that refuse to use features of an ATI card because they were written for nVidia (and probably sponsored by them) even when the same level of DirectX is supported.

Also, my idea of good graphics is extra realism, not the unreal glows, swirling lights etc. that were overdone in DS2. I liked shiny armor, water effects, footsteps, breath and the like, but wanted to turn most of the outlines, selection circles, buff effects and weapon effects off, and especially those stupid damage/heal numbers floating up all over the place.

I agree with you about extra realism, and that at least some of the effects were overdone (the huge stone fists and skulls for the dual classes in BW, for example; I thought the red circles for the Blood Assassin were enough, and the skulls too much, whereas the stone fists are simply too big and get in the way too much), but as I said before, I do think that a legendary hero's weapon ought to look the part (i.e., it should glow, sparkle, and/or drip colored light). Still, not every weapon has to have effects, and we've talked about allowing effects to be chosen when you're having a weapon enchanted (an idea which I like; almost anything that gives more options to the player is good in my opinion).

The selection circles and damage/heal numbers are also distracting, and hinder good screen shots; again, I think there should be an option to turn either or both of these features off (I wouldn't want to see the damage/heal numbers be unavailable, but there are times when you don't need/want to see them, and the HP bar showing the opponent's remaining HP is often enough).

The green circles can be eliminated with =>this<= mod.

As for the swirling colours, you know I agree with minimizing them. Oblivion does have some, but they are not "always on"... they're only displayed when being actively cast (or if you're receiving fire damage over time, it looks like you're on fire...). This can be distracting during magic intensive battles (especially with multiple combatants using enchanted weapons) but I find it to be appropriately done (as realistic as something like that can be).

- I always play DS2/BW with no rings or outlines..
- it makes the gameplay look much more "realistic"..

- and it means you have to actually look for the treasures
- instead of merely sweeping the mouse over the scenery and hoping..
- and playing with Elys' mod installed, you have most of the graphic tweaks on hand..

BTW - the elfling bought himself a new rig last week
it has a Pentium core-duo CPU with 2x8600GT's running in SLI
DS2/BW looks and plays so beautifully - I'm tempted to upgrade, as well..