Realm of Kings 2022 update Official Thread
| Submitted by runiclair on Sat, 2022-09-24 19:56 | ||
Hello friends, it is a great pleasure to begin to share with you news about my current progress on the updating of the map ROK for Dungeon Siege. The Realm of Kings over the years has acquired some popularity and as the original designer of the project (working alone) I have had great freedoms to express myself in an artistic manner that I truly enjoy. I have many inspirations over the years due to wonderful people such as yourselves and without the community none of this FUN would have been possible. Thank you, and please stay tuned to this thread for updates regarding this shimmering gem of an old map for dungeon siege!!! W E ARE C U R R E N T L Y IN THE PROCESS OF U P D A T I N G THIS MAP https://www.nexusmods.com/dungeonsiege1/mods/117/ Here are the Official Areas.. 1. Your Farmhouse - - - - some bushes..small krug.. a grizzly bear 2. Tyramul Forest - - - - Beautiful Forest, creatures, bugs, krugs, and mucosa 3. Aenoth Swamp - - - - Big Spider, green area, woody, rooty, blue lit rivers, cliffs, cliff grasses, mushrooms flourescent 4. Small Cliffway to Dromnar - - - - Scenic, ambient lighting, no creatures. 5. to the LEFT.. Crepid Pit - - - - you are high up on the cliffs looking down into the first PIT FULL of monsters 6. City of Dromnar - - - - sleepy town.. shake off the battles, upgrade your gear, drink with that crazy dwarf 7. Dromnar Woods which leads into the very exciting and beautiful Deep Tonvar Forest!! 8. Aenoth Ruins - - - - Most important region in the game. Lit pillars in bottom of pits, huge HUGE EPIC FIGHT on top of Aeonoth Ruins.. huge! 9. Deep Tonvar Forest 10. Deep Tonvar Forest City/Shop area right outside of the Tonvar Keep 11. Tonvar Keep - - - King Tonvar is there.. sitting on his throne unable to defeat the evil minions. 12. Thornvale Forest?? -- maybe thats the name.. this is the place where it really looks like there is water and weather, a crazy mood. 13 Thornvale Falls - - - Probably the BEST portion of the map in terms of effect... its a super dreamy waterfall with millions of mushrooms..kinda 14. City of Thornvale - - - A beautiful second city that allows you to equip your better gear that you earned and has increased storyline... 15. Tyramoss Wilderness - - - Wonderful woody area natural sounds, exceptional lighting (for the time early 2004) with tons of bandits and robotic flamethrowing tanks as well as some evil magic users. 16. PIT GreyDrak Horror - - - Huge Green swampy cavern with White Mezzolanthus (drake/dragon) defending the Black Mezzolanthus deep within.. tons of baddies in there. 17. Bastonian Plane - - - A dark orange weedy kinda desert area with moderate mobs..some enlarged swamp zombie type creatures leading up to Trechor Pit. 18. PIT Trechor PIT - - - An icy mountain full of robots, copter robots, Stulkatron (big loot) and an end Pit Boss...can't remember name of. 19. Lucidor Woods - - - - A quiet wooded area leading up to Lucidor Forest with small illuminated grasses. no mobs 20. Lucidor Forest - - - - Where The Realm of Kings begins to shine ... best looking area in the game with Cyclops swinging clubs. 21. Dehsta - - - - A small settlement where Lozule Armies have invaded or made camp to capture the innocent preceeding towns of the realm. 22. PIT Slothmorn PIT - - - A gruelish meaty area with bodies impaled upon bone spikes coming up through the ground with magus skeletons/sword skeletons. 23. Corlfire Mountains - - - A dark mountainous region with many tanky mobs and very hard rock hurling bad entities with many superpowered Skicks 24. PIT Darkmoore PIT - - - A golden lit candle lit floor with small pyramids for the player to run up for safe harbor from the masses of evil mobs :BOSS is Malich 4 of them. 25. City of Corlfire - - - - This is where the KINGS make their final declaration to unite and lead the charge into Caverns Infernal..they greet the hero here. 26. Pinecliff Forest - - - A nice scenic pseudo cliff area with beige mists and minmal mobs before the very evil Caverns Infernal 27. CAVERNS INFERNAL - - - Designed to be evil, especially the last area with the boss Lozule. Built from head to toe for conclusion, its the final area ( i still haven't beat it playing legitimately after 18 years in single player... i haven't been trying either haha!!!! but i just tested it and it STILL IS FUN) 28. The Shrine of Ryn - - - The Official End to the Realm of Kings.. i wanted more for this.. but i wasn't able to get it done. EDIT )(but I am getting it done NOW 10/09/2022                     forums: |
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First reply to own thread..testing it out.. bring me paradise! or a pair of eyes.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14VOq9bK2QWs5Oa0X18hDsTlnJxYrhrLq/view?usp=sharing <-------------the LATEST map UPDATE
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14VOq9bK2QWs5Oa0X18hDsTlnJxYrhrLq/view?usp=sharing
Going to toss in some screenshots here to validate my work and occassionaly visit to garner new ideas and stuff like that.
I am quickly relearning the siege editor and i am really enjoying it...
first news... the first region of the map is getting a land expansion..
these first few screenshots are of that process.
Apparently realm of kings multiplayer works.. here is a small screenshot of that
Woohoo work has begun! Excited to see what will happen
But focus, man! The map does not need a land expansion. The map needs multiplayer start positions to become playable
Yes, indeed the map has always had the 8 required multiplayer start locations but the radius of the trigger/command was set too low to include all 8 red stars that represent the multiplayer starter spot. I have increased the radius of that command to include all 8 red stars and I have also saved the edit as a dsmap file. I will try to upload it here, please test it out and get back to me with the news
does this link work? https://drive.google.com/file/d/14VOq9bK2QWs5Oa0X18hDsTlnJxYrhrLq/view?usp=sharing
if it does you can download the current latest updated realm of kings there
give it a whirlwind spin
OK great but there is still only ONE start group, and it has no name. There should be additional start groups every once in a while, cities are usually good places to start in.
I see the following cities in your list from the other thread: Dromnar, Tonvar Keep, Thornvale, Dehsta, and Corlfire... Is that list correct? Have a start group in each of them. At what levels should the player be to enter these places?
OK I've looked at it and couldn't find much after Thornvale... Dehsta seems to be houses with enemies, not a shop town. Am I overlooking shops?
I'd suggest the following start groups (with required levels):
- Your Farmhouse (0)
- Crepid Pit (5) (at the house above the pit)
- Dromnar (10)
- Tonvar Keep (30) (at the tents)
- Thornvale (42)
- Corlfire (70)
Note: there should be more shops / starting places than these. And the progression is rather too fast, but that's a different topic.
That is very informative and helpful.
I will delve into adding names to multiplayer start groups and providing new start locations around important segways into the story and map.
Those suggestions are spot on, thanks very much!
The start groups can be edited in SE via Settings -> Starting Groups. Screen Name is what appears on the dropdown item, Description is displayed at the bottom of the screen when hovering the dropdown item in the multi-player setup screen.
One group is the Default Group, this is the one where the hero gets placed when starting a new single-player game on the map. When you place a new Starting Position in SE, it adds the next position for the current default group. So to create a new starting group in SE, you have to set this group as the default group temporarily, add 8 starting positions, and switch the default group back to the one where the single-player map should start.
Each individual starting position should be inside a mood trigger.
And lastly to the required levels. This can also be done in SE. However, SE annoyingly adds a little "i" in front of the required_level property in the info/start_positions.gas file. You have to manually remove the "i" so that it actually works in the multi-player setup screen. I don't know about your toolchain, but I compile my dsmap with a script, and I added a little pre-processing step where I remove the "i" with the help of a python script. If you don't have such a handy setup you'll have to remove them manually for testing & publishing...
I also have a little python script that counts the amount of XP in each region and spits out the expected level of the player for each region. The suitable level for a starting group in a region is actually quite a bit lower than that number - usually about a dozen levels. I haven't tested this rule-of-thumb on veteran & elite yet tho, so I'm not so sure about my recommended level 70 for Corlfire.
EDIT: Yeah I did some number crunching and it should be more like level 92. At least if you want to keep it aligned with the required levels for veteran & elite in the vanilla maps.
This list of ideas is going to help me get things so much easier. I really appreciate it alot, thank you foerstj. I have not much experience laying out starting groups or modifiers concerning them. Pretty soon as I work and progress with the map, im very sure your insight into editing starting groups will make things happen in the new map update so much faster... This gives me better options for editing in a multiplayer aspect than before. Thanks again!! very insightful
I had the feeling that enemies grow too powerful too quickly on this map, so I did some python hacking and number crunching and out came this:
The curves are basically the "XP gradient" of Kingdom of Ehb (blue) and Realm of Kings (red).
Surprisingly this did not confirm my suspicion, at least not overall. It rather shows that, if you grind through the overpowered areas and backtrack to previously overpowered enemies, you might actually stand a chance at continuing the map, at least up to hookvalley, after that all bets are off.
For example, you can clearly see the bulge of the Crepid Pit, between 50k and 100k on the x-axis, is way overpowered. But if you actually harvested all that XP, you can continue after Dromnar quite well. Here's the thing tho: I don't like grinding. So I gave up on the pit, and so the enemies after Dromnar were also still too strong for me, and so I quit.
What can be done about this? A few things:
1. Change the enemies in the pit. That's not easy tho because if we just replace the overpowered zombies with weaker ones, the player won't have leveled enough to continue after Dromnar. And we also can't replace them with five times the weaker enemies because the pit is actually quite stuffed already as it is, and these huge campfires are cool but they do hinder walking.
2. Make the player understand that he is, indeed, supposed to grind through the pit, by giving a quest, maybe also promising a reward, or maybe simply blocking the way into Dromnar.
Also make the experience less grindy. The path blocking by the campfires is annoying, the blocking box should be about half the size. There could be some crates & barrels to stock up on potions so you don't have to backtrack to a shop. And in single-player this area would definitely be easier and more fun if you had companions. And at least one of them should be nature mage so they can heal. In KoE you can have Ulora, Gyorn, Naidi, Rusk and Zed at this point, arguably Gloern. That's almost a full group!
3. Add a multiplayer start position in Dromnar, so you can skip all that if you can't figure it out / don't want to grind through it, and just enter the map there with a suitable character.
really it is.. This graph is the coolest thing I have ever seen.. amazing that you can spit out the progression of difficulty and what have you.. this is amazing...
all monsters were placed carefully and purposefully so the player during wandering around my map would be able to explore monsters instead of items.. that is what I was shooting for
so.. the begining of the map is the farmhouse area.. then its that spoooky forest as they have called it.. but turn right and keep going right once in spooky forest (Tyramul Forest) and you reach Aenoth Swamp.. this swampy area is truly where the player is designed to level up in preparation for Crepid Pit.. the Aenoth Swamp area has a large spider kind of guarding the path to it.. it can be easily subdued with a ranged weapon.. the player should level up completely in Aeonoth Swamp (there is a powerful shopkeeper there, a girl with a wagon) and the scenery is rather unique.
so its like this (event trigectory dialogue)
you.... spawn farmhouse/Tyramul Forest/Aeonoth Swamp/Clear remainder of Tyramul Forest/Shop/Shop/Clear remainder of Tyramul Forest/Shop Dromnar/Then Crepid Pit
as a result I wanted the player to feel like he was knee deep in the action and I thought it might be worth his while to get his sword dirty and possibly give the player a reason to want to carry on further by knowing that this map is no gimmick, its a truly victorious kind of thing if you can beat it and move forward...that was my goal
PATHING... I didnt realize how much I was asking someone (the player) who was unfamiliar with the map to investigate all things in the areas to keep their character safe.. so I am now in the process of making more beautiful type paths to direct the player around as opposed to letting a player wander for too long.. I am working diligently on pathing right now and I will make sure that in this update I make paths striking and obvious.. directional and many more signs pointing the way around not to mention i may add signs concerning difficulty level in the map so the player can decide on the fly during gameplay where he might want to travel... good idea?? it might be.. im really starting to push the pedal to the floor on this thing it is CHANGING very rapidly... or should I say I am making huge additions to the map.. more comfort and more beauty much less confusion.
Yeah the graphs are nice... I have a collection of Python scripts that is ever-growing, here: https://github.com/foerstj/gaspy
It started with an attempt to write a parser for .gas files. And since then I always find new use cases for it, and sometimes I realize that something previously very difficult is now a low-hanging fruit. The graphs are created by simply writing out a .csv file (a simple text file that spreadsheet apps can open), and then creating a diagram in the spreadsheet app.
I had cleared the Aeonoth Swamp and went shopping in Dromnar and still the Crepid Pit was just too hard. There's a thin line between a hard challenge and frustratingly overpowered enemies, and the Crepid Pit is firmly on the latter side. If at least the story (conversations, quest, path, signs...) helped you understand that this is really the way to go...
About pathing: Putting up signs is a great idea. Apart from names, you might also give the player some hints... like "recommended level 10+" maybe? Somehow the player should understand that the way to Dromnar and beyond is the main path and the Aeonoth Swamp and Crepid Pit are side areas, but also that he's supposed to clear them. If I arrive with level 10 in Dromnar and I see "Crepid Pit (15+)" and "Dromnar Woods (20+)", I'll understand that I'm in for some hard fighting in the Crepid Pit but I should go there before continuing past Dromnar.
If you want to put down actual paths, here's a lazy cheat tip from me: I'm currently working on Green Range, where I also have to add a lot of pathing on existing terrain, and I found it way easier to create a dotted path using decals, than actually changing out the terrain nodes.
Also let me repeat again what a quick win multiplayer starting positions would be to make this map more playable!
its mandatory.. multiplayer will not allow you to join without the import character .....point is.. you must import a character to join a multiplayer game.. is this completely correct?
i am just learning this so im trying out locations trying to add multiplayer functionality and reasonability to the required levels
i set up a required level 8 for crepid pit but the game let me enter that starting location at level 2 .. so what gives there?
multiplayer is in.. its like really important.. it enables so much more than walking to the destination.. its like a warp .. its great... good advice here foerstj!!
i am trying and experimenting with good starting locations now.. trying to get the levels correct.. unfortunately the required level thing isnt working yet.. its lettin my imported character in no matter what his or her level is.. so im struggling with that at least...
but this multiplayer functionality has even further resparked my fuel for adding important player guiding and tools for character progression.. very opening context of invention here.
Yaay multi-player starting positions!
<3
SE annoyingly adds a little "i" in front of the required_level property in the info/start_positions.gas file. You have to manually remove the "i" so that it actually works in the multi-player setup screen. You'll have to remove them manually for testing & publishing...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14VOq9bK2QWs5Oa0X18hDsTlnJxYrhrLq/view?usp=sharing
made a few changes...trying to get better at it
In the newest map update, there is a problem with Fwynn Gilverstych. This is true in the multi player and single player maps. She shows up as a hireable character. In the multi-player game what ever you select Accept, Decline, View. The game crashes. In the single player game you can add her but she does not show up in the character pictures on left of screen and even though she follows she does not fight and no one attacks her. Other minor issues which I will cover late.
Farmhand Henry Smithers should also sell, boot, gloves, weapons. Matthew McHinerth is to large he is not a giant. It seems all male message givers are over sized giants There is even a giant dwarf in City of Dromnar! At least for me these out of place giants makes the game totally unplayable.
Working immediately on the giants issue!! Thanks for pointing that out bare-elf. Very keen eye you have !
The original farmhouse girl who tells you to watch out for krug and the chicken threat has been removed from the map at this time...
I still am having some difficulty with hireable npc character additions so for now the player is alone...but I am buffing him/her up with magical goodies!
GIANTS issue resolved for now.. new link below!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14VOq9bK2QWs5Oa0X18hDsTlnJxYrhrLq/view?usp=sharing
working on him now..
wait a minute... in my version of the game mr. farmhand henry smithers sells and has available weapons, armors.. and shields per the normal shopkeeper like always.... on my computer the vendor smithers is functional.. i will check and double check
by the way.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/14VOq9bK2QWs5Oa0X18hDsTlnJxYrhrLq/view?usp=sharing
I a few days ago also added a shopkeeper in the first region where all the little phrak monsters (mosquitos) are at the very beginning of the map
the name of the NPC is The Shopkeeper of the Realm of Kings
can't miss it and i think these things definitely should be showin up in game
he sells bows, swords axes, shields, entry level armors, boots, gloves small helmets.. he has it all ...
i dont know why it isnt workin on yours bare elf...too strange but we can fix it i think
here it is ... a fresh update..
work is done for this day..... thanks for your help guys!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14VOq9bK2QWs5Oa0X18hDsTlnJxYrhrLq/view?usp=sharing
I will try disabling some of my custom armor and weapons mods to see if I can get Smithers to work.
It's not a conflict with my weapon and armor mods. Smithers is still broken.
It is possible that another map is causing the problem. Smithers and Realm of Kings Shop keeper are still broken. Other shop keepers seem to work fine. I am reluctant to remove the other maps I have installed to check this theory.
The only map I have installed is Kingdom of Ehb and The Realm of Kings....
i'm really sorry the shop isn't working for your version of the map but I do plan to pretty much make the shops a curiosity more than a must use kind of thing. I plan to put adequate treasure for the player to find as opposed to forcing a player to visit the shop....
the map update will include every single goodie to enable a player to enjoy the map rather than be a chore to play it.. This WILL be true once my update is completed.. the whole map will be playable in a fun and quicker manner than ever before.. I want to create a much more arcade like experience with my map because I know I can do it and I know I can do it well.
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